service terminated squawk 1200

My assumption comes from observations in BDR's tower with a controller
pal of mine on a marginal VFR day. A Caravan amphib requested a special
VFR departure and while he was still inside the class D, NY Approach
called with an inbound bizjet. My friend said something about special
VFR aircraft couldn't share the airspace with IFR aircraft (details are
foggy here) It wasn't an issue as the amphib cleared the Delta before
the jet made its initial call to the tower.


Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Kingfish" wrote in message
ps.com...

IIRC flying IFR into an uncontrolled field is a one-in & one-out deal.
In essence you "own" the airspace (not the runway) until you've landed
& cancelled with ATC or flown somewhere else. Only then can ATC bring
in another aircraft for an approach (assuming IMC conditions exist). I
think a parallel to a controlled field would be the local controller
sterilizing the airspace of any special VFRs aircraft when IAPs are in
effect.


The surface area does not need to be "sterilized" of SVFR aircraft, they
just need to be separated from IFR or other SVFR aircraft.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
There is no "one in, one out rule". Separation must be provided, of course,
so if an IAP is needed a previous aircraft must cancel IFR before a
following aircraft can be cleared for the approach.

Isn't that essentially the same as one in, one out?

But if visual approaches are being made visual separation can be used and multiple
aircraft can have approach clearances.

Even when flying a visual approach under IFR the pilot still must
cancel upon landing and ATC can't clear the next acft in until that
cancellation is received, right? (uncontrolled field)

"Kingfish" wrote in message
ups.com...

My assumption comes from observations in BDR's tower with a controller
pal of mine on a marginal VFR day. A Caravan amphib requested a special
VFR departure and while he was still inside the class D, NY Approach
called with an inbound bizjet. My friend said something about special
VFR aircraft couldn't share the airspace with IFR aircraft (details are
foggy here) It wasn't an issue as the amphib cleared the Delta before
the jet made its initial call to the tower.


Your pal is either mistaken or you misunderstood him. FAA Order 7110.65
requires controllers to apply approved separation between SVFR aircraft and
also between SVFR aircraft and IFR aircraft. Clearly, there'd be no
requirement for separation between SVFR aircraft and IFR aircraft if Special
VFR aircraft couldn't share the airspace with IFR aircraft.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
link.net...

Your pal is either mistaken or you misunderstood him. FAA Order 7110.65
requires controllers to apply approved separation between SVFR aircraft
and also between SVFR aircraft and IFR aircraft. Clearly, there'd be no
requirement for separation between SVFR aircraft and IFR aircraft if
Special VFR aircraft couldn't share the airspace with IFR aircraft.

http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp7/atc0705.html#7-5-3

"Kingfish" wrote in message
oups.com...

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
There is no "one in, one out rule". Separation must be provided, of
course,
so if an IAP is needed a previous aircraft must cancel IFR before a
following aircraft can be cleared for the approach.

Isn't that essentially the same as one in, one out?


That is, what follows is not.



But if visual approaches are being made visual separation can be used and
multiple
aircraft can have approach clearances.

Even when flying a visual approach under IFR the pilot still must
cancel upon landing and ATC can't clear the next acft in until that
cancellation is received, right? (uncontrolled field)


Wrong. ATC can clear the next aircraft using visual separation before the
first one cancels.

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message oups.com...
I'm curious how important it really is to punch in 1200 as soon as the
controller instructs squawk 1200 as you approach for landing at an
uncontrolled field. I've always blown it off and just landed with my
original code. My thinking is 1) Of the things I need to do to
configure for landing, watch for traffic, get the plane slowed down,
etc this is way, way down on my important to-do list 2) What the heck
can ATC care anyway, are they going to reuse that code in the next 2
minutes 3) If something did happen to me, maybe they'd have a better
radar track if I'm still on the old code??

Im just curious from controllers how important is this change in code
before landing.

-Robert, CFI


Squawk standby....

the digital "push button" VFR code makes it so much easier
BT

"Denny" wrote in message
oups.com...

If you are close to the airport and busy during the approach don't
worry about changing the squawk code and turn it off once on the
ground...
If you are not busy during the approach, dial in 1200 as convenient..
The controller will not care as you are in the airport traffic area and
no longer his problem...
denny

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
Even when flying a visual approach under IFR the pilot still must
cancel upon landing and ATC can't clear the next acft in until that
cancellation is received, right? (uncontrolled field)


Wrong. ATC can clear the next aircraft using visual separation before the
first one cancels.

I talked to my ATC pal tonight about this and he referenced the 7110.
You're absolutely right about the visual approach. The scenario I had
in mind was an uncontrolled field just above minimums (no visual
approach possible). In that case ATC can't clear another acft for an
approach until the previous acft has canceled as they can't provide
separation if the first acft is on another frequency. That was what I
meant by one in, one out.

I don't think they care. When coming home with VFR flight following, sometimes
approach control will tell me to squeak 1200 and some times they don't. The only
time the tower tells me to squawk 1200 is if I stay in the pattern.

On 13 Jun 2006 08:35:04 -0700, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

I'm curious how important it really is to punch in 1200 as soon as the
controller instructs squawk 1200 as you approach for landing at an
uncontrolled field. I've always blown it off and just landed with my
original code. My thinking is 1) Of the things I need to do to
configure for landing, watch for traffic, get the plane slowed down,
etc this is way, way down on my important to-do list 2) What the heck
can ATC care anyway, are they going to reuse that code in the next 2
minutes 3) If something did happen to me, maybe they'd have a better
radar track if I'm still on the old code??

Im just curious from controllers how important is this change in code
before landing.

-Robert, CFI

GeorgeC

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
Your pal is either mistaken or you misunderstood him. FAA Order 7110.65
requires controllers to apply approved separation between SVFR aircraft and
also between SVFR aircraft and IFR aircraft.

Even if both acft are on tower freq, if the tower doesn't have radar
and visual separation is impossible how can ATC maintain separation for
SVFR and IFR aircraft?