How to land on a grass airstrip

No one said it was rocket science. This pilot wasn't clear on something
and did the right thing before attempting it -- ASK! Regardless of the
reason (an "original" CFI that didn't spend enough time on it, an
examiner that did not cover it, a lot of time passing between having
learned it but never actually *done* it, he/she should not be made to
feel ashamed or belittled for ASKING for help/advice ... which is
exactly the attitude you took.

Matt Whiting wrote:
No, that isn't the attitude I took at all. I think it was great he
asked for advice. It was some of the advice that I took exception with,
not the asking for it. Read it again, Sam...

No need to re-read.
Yes, he asked for advice, and you took exception with the person who
suggested he take a CFI along, belittling the idea that any licensed
pilot should need or want a CFI for refresher in doing a landing on a
surface he's never experienced before ... just because YOUR way of
expanding your skill happens to be trying it on your own.

Grass strips in general aren't soft fields.

They generally are soft where I am, as are the dirt/sand strips.

I gave him a very correct answer for the question he asked.

Debatable.

Others seemed to want to give him answers for a lot of
questions he didn't ask.

He asked about landing on grass. Others pointed out that the surface
beneath the grass may have any number of inconsistencies, including a
soft surface. You, on the other hand, would have him think that there is
only ONE correct answer -- YOURS, that grass strips are not soft fields.

Matt Whiting wrote:

Again, only if this is a soft field. Grass strip isn't synonymous with soft field. If you don't
know the difference, I suggest some remedial instruction.


Ok Matt, I fess up to being one who doesn't. Isn't a non-asphalt
surface like grass what's called soft-field? This looks confusing...

Ramapriya

Your years must be pretty long, we only have 52 weeks in our
years.



"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
|A Lieberman wrote:
|
| On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:10:28 GMT, Matt Whiting wrote:
|
| snip

| I'm sure I can't prove it to you, but I flew out of a
grass strip for 6
| years (7N1 - it is no longer grass though). It was only
very rarely a
| soft field, actually for about two weeks each spring when
the frost was
| leaving the ground. It was a hard field for the remaining
52 weeks of
| the year.
|
| snip
| Matt

But I have seen picnic tables and chairs. Some logs are
also moved around camp fires and used as benches.
Unattended airports are vandalized almost as often as other
places.



"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
|
| Vandals tip headstones over in cemeteries and sometimes
| visit grass strips for similar reasons. If the airport
| isn't attended, a low and slow look-see is a good idea.
If
| attended, a telephone call can alert you to any new
issues,
| such as a prairie dog colony.
|
| I've never seen a headstone on a grass airstrip. :-)
I'll take your
| word for it, however.
|
| Matt

In article ,
A Lieberman wrote:



See above, grass strips are not concrete runways, the sub surface the grass
is growing on adds drag to ground ops which is a distinctly different
technique then hard top runways / taxiways.

Not only that, more irregularities in the surface and taxiing or landing at
an excessive speed WITHOUT using soft field techniques will just invite you
to a potential prop strike if your nose wheel just happens to dig in.


I've got somewhere between 3500 and 4000 landings on a grass strip.
That strip is not "soft" except in spring right after the snow melt.
And it isn't clay, it's just turf. Sure, it is "softer" than a paved
runway but not to the point where any special technique is required. I
fly a 206 out of the strip. I have flown a Caravan there and quite often
we have a Twin Otter operate out of our strip. Even the heavier
airplanes don't require any special technique due to being operated on
grass.

Yes, it takes a bit more power to taxi because of the drag of the grass.
By the same token you use less brake on landing. If you land during or
soon after a rain shower you'll be wishing you had an anchor to throw to
help you get stopped!! G On our strip there is no worry about "digging
in the nosewheel". The surface is just too firm for that to happen.

Now, your assumption that all grass fields are soft and then applying
soft-field techniques isn't going to hurt you, I would do the same thing
on a strip I didn't have any information on, but it's silly to state
that special techniques are "required" just because a runway is grass
and not paved.

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 01:47:11 GMT, Matt Whiting wrote:

But when you are taxiing back after landing that 30 knot headwind is now
a 30 knot tailwind. Holding full up elevator with that strong a
tailwind will put a lot more weight on the nosewheel and may even flip
the airplane on its nose. You did learn proper control positioning for
taxiing in strong windds during your primary instruction didn't you?

Duh, good point :-)

Helps to read you did say taxiing back...

Allen

On 17 Jun 2006 20:54:11 -0700, wrote:

Ok Matt, I fess up to being one who doesn't. Isn't a non-asphalt
surface like grass what's called soft-field? This looks confusing...

Just wondering what other CFI's feel about this thread???? Do you teach
your students to use soft field landing techniques on grass fields???

Mine did..... On real grass too!

I will post this question on rec.aviation.student.

Allen

A Lieberman wrote:

Incorrect advice.....

You want to land as softly and as slowly as possible on a grass strip.


Soft Field Technique Snipped

A Grass strip is not synonymous with "Soft Field".

If its a well prepared, dry, grass or dirt strip its likely NOT very
soft, and the "land normal" advice is pretty much on the money.

The turf and dirt strips are actually a little more forgiving than paved
strips when you are learning crosswinds and playing with tailwheels...

Dave

Matt Whiting wrote:

This is funny. It is becoming increasingly obvious that you have little
experience on grass runways, especially short ones.

As PIC, I have to make decisions for myself about many things,
including when I want a refresher with a CFI. Maybe you don't respect
my choice to do so, and that's your perogative, but in the end, it's my
butt on the line, not yours.

When I've read some of your responses on this thread, I've been
reminded of some of the risk factors outlined in 'The Killing Zone', a
book that describes attitudes that kill pilots. You might be a
multi-thousand hour pilot, but if you're really as complacent as you
sound, I believe you are at an elevated risk of mishap.

I hope that any low time pilots you correspond with don't feel
pressured to fly beyond their abilities because of what you've written.

Regards,

Ben Hallert

A,

***I don't need the yoke in full aft position AFTER touchdown on paved
runways.***

Of course you do, if you want to make the nose wheel assembly last longer.

You don't want to use brakes at all for grass strips on landing or you will
invite the chances of the nose wheel digging in.

Simply not true in that general way. On very soft grass strips, yes. On a
normal, well kept grass strip - no way. Blicking wheels and sliding on wet
grass is much more of a problem with heavy braking.

Keeping the yoke full aft after landing to shut down will reduce the
pressure on the nose wheel and shift the weight back on your mains where it
needs to be.

Yep. On asphalt, too.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)