What to do about North Korea...?

Rationale sane people are not
in charge of the nk government.

Some think the same about our leaders.

I've not met any sane people who claim this to be true.

but I, for one, wouldn't bother trying to **** off the USA. I
wouldn't **** away government funds on a worthless military weapon
systems when millions of my citizens are starving.

I see; so you'd cozy up to the folks who think you're part of an "Axis of
Evil", and prefer that the popuce run around anxious that the US is going
to attack you next while they starve anyway. Hmm. Is that the rational and
sane approach?

You don't seem to get it. The world (yes, it's not just your horrid
United States of America)warned North Korea not to launch any more
missiles toward Japan under the guise of "testing" them.

In response, they launched not one, but SEVEN missiles, provoking what
could have been an all-out retaliatory strike.

I suppose you believe these missile launches were the act of a sane
government? Good grief...

Interestingly, it is the Japanese who are now demanding sanctions
against NK, and (as usual) the Russians and Chinese who are proving
that the "United Nations" is as ineffective as as always.

Here's the bottom line, folks: North Korea represents a clear and
present danger to the U.S., and its allies -- and as of this evening
they are now threatening to fire even MORE missiles into the Sea of
Japan. President Bush, by labeling NK part of the "Axis of Evil", has
correctly identified North Korea as one of the main enemies of freedom
in the world -- as their actions clearly illustrate.

Most thinking people understand the logic of this position, and it
alarms me that there are apologists in this group for (I can't believe
I'm writing this!) the actions of Kim Jong Il -- a man who aspires to
join the despicable ranks of Stalin, Mao, and his own father. What
are you guys *thinking*?

The fact that we currently have an administration in power that
actually says what it means, and means what it says, is a fortunate
stroke of luck in world history. Can you imagine what Clinton (or
Kerry? Or Gore?) would be doing right now? God almighty, we'd be
showering Kim with gifts, offering him a state visit, and firing cruise
missiles into the Libyan desert to divert the media's attention...

Sadly, incredibly, once again, if diplomacy fails it looks like we may
have to go it alone against North Korea -- and once again the majority
of Americans (and, I believe, the world) will support such an action.
But what a shame...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

And no, I don't have a solution. I do know that for diplomacy to work,
our word must be good and our "big stick" must be credible and
effective. To be effective, it must be a stick we are willing to use,
and one we can get away with using.

Hmm, let's see. In the last dozen or so years, we've:

- Gone to war in the Balkans, and overthrown a tyrant or two.
- Gone to war in Iraq, and overthrown a tyrant or two.
- Gone to war in Afghanistan, and overthrown the most evil regime in
history.

What part of our "Big Stick" aren't you getting?

North Korea's leaders are acting irresponsibly if they don't think
there is a big stick floating off shore.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"We are not controlling events in Iraq. Events in Iraq are controlling us.
We are the puppet; the street gangs of Baghdad and Basra are the
puppet-masters, aided and abetted by an unsavory assortment of confidence
men, bazaar traders, scheming clerics, ethnic front men, and Iranian agents.
With all our wealth and power and idealism, we have submitted to become the
plaything of a rabble, and a Middle Eastern rabble at that. [ ] The
lazy-minded evangelico-romanticism of George W. Bush, the bureaucratic will
to power of Donald Rumsfeld, the avuncular condescension of Dick Cheney, and
the reflexive military deference of Colin Powell combined to get us into a
situation we never wanted to be in, a situation no self-respecting nation
ought to be in, a situation we don't know how to get out of."

Wow. Try this:

- Substitute the word "Chicago" for "Iraq", "Baghdad" and "Basra"

- Substitute "drug dealers" for "Iranian agents"

- Substitue "ghetto" for "Middle Eastern"

- And, finally, substitute "Daley" for "Bush", "Rumsveld" and "Powell"
-- and that whole ridiculous diatribe makes sense!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"We are not controlling events in Iraq. Events in Iraq are controlling us.
We are the puppet; the street gangs of Baghdad and Basra are the
puppet-masters, aided and abetted by an unsavory assortment of confidence
men, bazaar traders, scheming clerics, ethnic front men, and Iranian agents.
With all our wealth and power and idealism, we have submitted to become the
plaything of a rabble, and a Middle Eastern rabble at that. [ ] The
lazy-minded evangelico-romanticism of George W. Bush, the bureaucratic will
to power of Donald Rumsfeld, the avuncular condescension of Dick Cheney, and
the reflexive military deference of Colin Powell combined to get us into a
situation we never wanted to be in, a situation no self-respecting nation
ought to be in, a situation we don't know how to get out of."

Wow. Try this:

- Substitute the word "Chicago" for "Iraq", "Baghdad" and "Basra"

- Substitute "drug dealers" for "Iranian agents"

- Substitute "ghetto" for "Middle Eastern"

- And, finally, substitute "Daley" for "Bush", "Rumsveld" and "Powell"
-- and that whole ridiculous diatribe makes sense!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

- Gone to war in the Balkans, and overthrown a tyrant or two.
- Gone to war in Iraq, and overthrown a tyrant or two.
- Gone to war in Afghanistan, and overthrown the most evil regime in
history.

What part of our "Big Stick" aren't you getting?

I don't know about the Balkans, but in Iraq we have not overthrown a
tyrant or two that hasn't been replaced by another tyrant or three. In
Afghanistan, we did =not= overthrow the most evil regime in history; we
slowed that particular branch of terrorism a bit, while allowing it to
breed elsewhere like a hydra. We are going to win the war on terrorism
the same way we won the war on drugs. Our stick isn't even that big -
by all reports I've read, we don't even equip our troops properly.

As for North Korea being irresponsible,

The world (yes, it's not just your horrid
United States of America)warned North Korea not to launch any more
missiles toward Japan under the guise of "testing" them.

In response, they launched not one, but SEVEN missiles, provoking what
could have been an all-out retaliatory strike.

I suppose you believe these missile launches were the act of a sane
government? Good grief...

Yes, I do. A dangerous one to be sure. But defying orders is not the
mark of insanity. It is important to understand how the enemy thinks
and what they value. It's a grave error to evaluate them based on how
-we- think.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

In article .com,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

In response, they launched not one, but SEVEN missiles, provoking what
could have been an all-out retaliatory strike.

hey - I just had a thought.... maybe NK was actually just trying to help
the USA with its fourth of July celebration!!

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

("Jay Honeck" wrote)
North Korea's leaders are acting irresponsibly if they don't think there
is a big stick floating off shore.


NK's leader(s) have seen the US invade countries like Panama,
Serbia/Yugo/Bosnia, Somalia, Iraq(x2), Afghanistan, etc, etc.

NK's leader(s) know the US negotiates with countries with nukes - Iran and
Pakistan come to mind.

NK's leader(s) wants to be in the second group.

"You are smart... you will make us strong... you will help us go..."


Montblack
"We Like Things That Make Us Go!"...Pakled Captain
The Samaritan Snare
Star Trek - TNG: Season Two
Episode: 17 (#143)

I don't know about the Balkans, but in Iraq we have not overthrown a
tyrant or two that hasn't been replaced by another tyrant or three.

??? What news reports are you reading?

The democratically elected government in Iraq (their first, ever) is
running about as well as, oh, let's say, the Cabrini Green district of
Chicago -- but it *is* running.

If you're referring to the insurgents blowing up innocents, well,
that's about the same thing that happens in America's inner cities
every day. Scum is scum, everywhere.

In
Afghanistan, we did =not= overthrow the most evil regime in history; we
slowed that particular branch of terrorism a bit,

Really? Again, what news reports are you reading? I don't believe the
Taliban has held office since our rather abrupt arrival.

Oh, wait, you're referring to the street violence again. Check out
East St. Louis on a Saturday night, and report back how well our own
democracy is working there.

You guys are hilarious. You expect democracy to work in the Middle
East overnight, when we've got portions of many American inner cities
that -- after 230 years -- can't even be patrolled safely by law
enforcement, let alone visited by normal Americans. .

Give it time. Sane people eventually LIKE democracy, flawed though it
may be.

I suppose you believe these missile launches were the act of a sane
government? Good grief...

Yes, I do. A dangerous one to be sure. But defying orders is not the
mark of insanity. It is important to understand how the enemy thinks
and what they value. It's a grave error to evaluate them based on how
-we- think.

Yes -- but it is THEIR grave error.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Matt Whiting writes:

Jay Honeck wrote:

Uh oh:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I50915D5D
The news is reporting that they've launched FOUR missiles now --
possibly one that can reach the U.S. mainland...
I wonder what our Air Force guys in South Korea are doing right
now...

Sounds like they are watching missiles fail mid-flight according to
CNN. :-)

I was sort of hoping we'd use this occasion for some live tests of our
anti-missile laser and missile systems. It would be nice to have some
free targets for a change.

Sure, but so embarrassing when it doesn't work!
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

"Jay Honeck" wrote:

"We are not controlling events in Iraq. Events in Iraq are controlling
us.
We are the puppet; the street gangs of Baghdad and Basra are the
puppet-masters, aided and abetted by an unsavory assortment of confidence
men, bazaar traders, scheming clerics, ethnic front men, and Iranian
agents.
With all our wealth and power and idealism, we have submitted to become
the
plaything of a rabble, and a Middle Eastern rabble at that. [ ] The
lazy-minded evangelico-romanticism of George W. Bush, the bureaucratic
will
to power of Donald Rumsfeld, the avuncular condescension of Dick Cheney,
and
the reflexive military deference of Colin Powell combined to get us into
a
situation we never wanted to be in, a situation no self-respecting nation
ought to be in, a situation we don't know how to get out of."

Wow. Try this:

- Substitute the word "Chicago" for "Iraq", "Baghdad" and "Basra"

- Substitute "drug dealers" for "Iranian agents"

- Substitute "ghetto" for "Middle Eastern"

- And, finally, substitute "Daley" for "Bush", "Rumsveld" and "Powell"
-- and that whole ridiculous diatribe makes sense!

Don't be silly. Comparing the fiasco in Iraq to conditions in Chicago is an
act of willful self delusion. Does it make you feel better about the cost
of the war?

How many Islamist terrorists are being created in Chicago? How many U. S.
troops are being killed every week in Chicago? How many $billions are being
added every month to the federal deficit?

The Iraq war is a disaster created by fools. These idiots have gotten our
country stuck in a hopeless mess with no good way out. They deserve to be
held accountable for the harm they have done: the time for excuses and
rationalizations is long past.

--
Dan

"The power of the Executive to cast a man into prison
without formulating any charge known to the law, and
particularly to deny him the judgment of his peers, is
in the highest degree odious and is the foundation of
all totalitarian government whether Nazi or Communist."
- Winston Churchill

"There ought to be limits to freedom."
- George W. Bush