Need Advice - What to check when renting a plane?

I happen to know be very familiar with a high-quality FBO who operates
in a city-owned, badly maintained, RENTED facility, built in 1936. His
aircraft are in great shape, and his mechanics are high-quality on all
levels. The place is orderly, neat, and organized, but the building is
a pit.

Good point. It's not always possible to take into account landlords.
However, in general, if the FBO takes no pride in their surroundings, I
wouldn't trust that they care any more about their aircraft.

Note that I'm NOT talking about the shop. I'm talking about the FBO
office area -- their "front door".
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:


Note that I'm NOT talking about the shop. I'm talking about the FBO
office area -- their "front door".

Neither am I. The place is neat and orderly, but it's old and worn.

This guy cleans his bathrooms, but they have stained ceilings and
crumbling plaster from a leaky roof, and leaky pipes. He vacuums the
carpeting, but it's also stained from building-related problems.

He's 5 years into a process where it looks like the city is going to
finally build him a new building, but it's a deathly slow political process.

He's the only FBO on the field, and there aren't other choices for
buildings.

On the other hand, his fuel prices are good to excellent, and he's got
very nice, knowledgeable, employees with a caring attitude.

Jon Woellhaf wrote:
Jay Honeck wrote
...
4. ... If you want to be really anal, get a list of all ADs for
that model plane, and make sure they've all been complied with. (This
will take HOURS.)

Impossible for a renter. Maybe even impossible for an IA. Unless the FBO
will allow you to disassamble the engine and airframe. g


If there are AD's against something, compliance should be in the
maintenance records.

When I learned to fly (in the late 60's at Zahns Airport , Amityville, Long
Island) there was no running water in the rest rooms. If you "had to go",
you made it quick, and held your nose. I never once had a problem with their
PA28's or CFIs however.

A year or two later, I did my Instrument rating at A.T.E. (now American
Flyers) which operated from a fancy office at Islip, NY. Their fleet was no
better than that at Zahns.
"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
I happen to know be very familiar with a high-quality FBO who operates
in a city-owned, badly maintained, RENTED facility, built in 1936. His
aircraft are in great shape, and his mechanics are high-quality on all
levels. The place is orderly, neat, and organized, but the building is
a pit.

Good point. It's not always possible to take into account landlords.
However, in general, if the FBO takes no pride in their surroundings, I
wouldn't trust that they care any more about their aircraft.

Note that I'm NOT talking about the shop. I'm talking about the FBO
office area -- their "front door".
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Beckman" wrote:
Ask to see the maintenance logs for the aircraft in question.

While looking them over, check that the aircraft's last annual was within
the last 12 months and is otherwise legally airworthy. The FAA once
suspended a renter's certificate for 30 days because the renter flew a
plane that was 12 days past the expiration date of its last annual. The
following post from 2004 gives a few more details:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...cc34cd81b11723

"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
"Jay Beckman" wrote:
Ask to see the maintenance logs for the aircraft in question.

While looking them over, check that the aircraft's last annual was within
the last 12 months and is otherwise legally airworthy. The FAA once
suspended a renter's certificate for 30 days because the renter flew a
plane that was 12 days past the expiration date of its last annual. The
following post from 2004 gives a few more details:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...cc34cd81b11723

Good point by Jim...

Also, don't forget to make an A R O W check to be sure the paperwork IN the
airplane is correct.

Jay B

("tony roberts" wrote)
Don't overanalyze this.
Check the books,
Do a decent walkaround and go fly.


Be polite, but be firm - IT'S YOUR MONEY.

"I would like to see the books, please." Then sit down for 30 minutes and
read them.

YOUR MONEY IS STILL IN YOUR POCKET.

"I would like to talk with three renters and three instructors, please."

YOUR MONEY IS STILL IN YOUR POCKET.

"I need to use the bathroom." No really, you probably have to go by now. g

I've always thought this advise had much merit, when "purchasing" a
($35,000) plane:

- Check out the owner's car. Open the trunk. Open the hood and check the
engine oil and fluid levels. Check out the glovebox for maintenance records.
Etc, etc. Chances are good that if the car is a mess, the plane has been
operated that way, too.

So yes, look over the operation.

Most importantly, look over THREE operations (on three different fields?)
Now, what are the differences. What did you like and dislike about each FBO,
etc.

Also, how about local Flying Clubs?

Call the aiport manager at three local airports. They will tell you what
Flying Clubs are on their field. Google. Some have websites, some do not.
BTW, where will you be flying out of? Someone here might have a
recommendation for you.

Good luck. Keep us posted...


Montblack

"B A R R Y" wrote about an FBO
... The place is neat and orderly, but it's old and worn.
... his fuel prices are good to excellent, and he's got very nice,
knowledgeable, employees with a caring attitude.

Pray he never gets the new building! I would expect all that to change.
semi grin

The PIC, whether an owner, paid pilot or a renter, is
expected to check and be sure EVERYTHING is done and
properly signed off. That includes ADs, annual,
transponder, ELT, a current and up-to-date POH/AFM.

The easiest method is to call the FAA and ask for a ramp
check by the FAA maintenance inspectors. Or have the
owner's shop AI sit down with you and go over the
maintenance records.

You can now go on-line with the aircraft make, model and
serial number and a list of installed equipment and do an AD
search on the airframe, engine, prop and accessories.


The FAA will hold the PIC accountable, but a pilot/renter,
whether an ATP or a student will have to rely to some extent
on the honesty and ethics of the shop and aircraft owner. A
logbook entry doesn't always mean the work was really done.
Some owners don't follow up on required repairs and people
are just plain and simple crooks/ con artists. Others are
just not competent.

Any company or person who will not show you the logbooks and
other records should be avoided.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
| "Jay Beckman" wrote:
| Ask to see the maintenance logs for the aircraft in
question.
|
| While looking them over, check that the aircraft's last
annual was within
| the last 12 months and is otherwise legally airworthy. The
FAA once
| suspended a renter's certificate for 30 days because the
renter flew a
| plane that was 12 days past the expiration date of its
last annual. The
| following post from 2004 gives a few more details:
|
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...cc34cd81b11723

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:jJCNg.22513$SZ3.15912@dukeread04...
The easiest method is to call the FAA and ask for a ramp
check by the FAA maintenance inspectors.


Jim,

The FAA would NEVER do that. Maybe 20 years ago, but not today. They have,
what they believe, work to do.

Karl
"Curator" N185KG