Entry Level GPS-Task Plan-Flight Recorder System

Last Saturday I was aproched by a very good pilot from our local
airport. He is flying gliders for tens of years and somehow (real
classic) never switch to GPS based technology. Now being the 10's
lighting years behind the technology, he is asking the simple question.
What should I know and what should I buy?. Lets assume that he like to
fly in local competitions and would like to post his flights on OLC.
Let's figure for him the best combination of simplest hardware,
software and price.

richard k.

Hi Richard,

I'd be glad to talk to him or you over the phone or Skype sometime.

If he wants to submit flights to the OLC then the minimum equipment would be
a Garmin GPS like the 76 (I don't recall the exact model that has a pressure
transducer). SeeYou or StrePla can download the flight recording and upload
it to the OLC. However, it can only be used for the OLC Classic, not the
FAI-OLC (FAI triangles) or the OLC League (speed tasks), and it probably
can't be used for U.S. contests.

Another interesting option would be a Pocket PC running SeeYou Mobile,
pocket*StrePla or WinPilot. The flight logs generated by those systems can
be used for the OLC Classic, but not the FAI-OLC (FAI triangles) or the OLC
League (speed tasks), and it can't be used for U.S. contests. This is
probably not the best option for someone who is not comfortable with new
technology.

The 2 most popular IGC approved flight recorders that I sell are the LX
Navigation Colibri and the Cambridge 302A. Either would work great for his
needs. Just turn them on and go fly. I've never heard anyone complain about
investing in an IGC Approved flight recorder - probably because it is fun to
replay your flights and have a record of your accomplishments.

I have created a Flight Recorder Comparison page that gives an overview of
the products on the market.
http://www.soarmn.com/cumulus/flightrecorders.htm

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

wrote in message
oups.com...
Last Saturday I was aproched by a very good pilot from our local
airport. He is flying gliders for tens of years and somehow (real
classic) never switch to GPS based technology. Now being the 10's
lighting years behind the technology, he is asking the simple question.
What should I know and what should I buy?. Lets assume that he like to
fly in local competitions and would like to post his flights on OLC.
Let's figure for him the best combination of simplest hardware,
software and price.

richard k.

Hi Paul,

The thing missing in all those compar tables is how do one take the log
file from glider to the computer at home.

Best Regards,
Avron

Hi Avron,

I'll try to add that the comparison page, along with data on the new EW
MicroRecorder.

Thanks,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

"Avron" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi Paul,

The thing missing in all those compar tables is how do one take the log
file from glider to the computer at home.

Best Regards,
Avron

The Garmin handheld option is a great entry level option or as a backup
option.

The choices of options a

Best option - GPSMAP 76CS. Easy to find and reasonably priced. 30
hour battery life (get a good set of rechargables), great screen, and
10+ hours at 4 second recording interval.

Next best option - GPSMAP 76CSX. Latest version of the 76 that uses a
micro storage card. Card can be a pain to deal with, battery life is
~18 hours.

I am not a fan of the 96CS, includes Jeppson database, as the screen is
very cluttered, expensive, expensive for database refreshes, and harder
to setup.

To download and create IGC files use the free utility G7TOWIN,
http://www.gpsinformation.org/ronh/

Display the tracklog on Google Earth, search for free utilities that
preserve altitude and allow replay.

These Garmin units can be used in your vehicle for navigation

Paul Remde wrote:
Hi Richard,

I'd be glad to talk to him or you over the phone or Skype sometime.

If he wants to submit flights to the OLC then the minimum equipment would be
a Garmin GPS like the 76 (I don't recall the exact model that has a pressure
transducer). SeeYou or StrePla can download the flight recording and upload
it to the OLC. However, it can only be used for the OLC Classic, not the
FAI-OLC (FAI triangles) or the OLC League (speed tasks), and it probably
can't be used for U.S. contests.

The Garmin GPSMAP 76S is probably what you're thinking of. I've had one
for ~4 years now and still use it as a backup to my iPAQ running SeeYou
Mobile. It's a great little unit for soaring.

Jeremy

Jeremy Zawodny wrote:
Paul Remde wrote:
Hi Richard,

I'd be glad to talk to him or you over the phone or Skype sometime.

If he wants to submit flights to the OLC then the minimum equipment would be
a Garmin GPS like the 76 (I don't recall the exact model that has a pressure
transducer). SeeYou or StrePla can download the flight recording and upload
it to the OLC. However, it can only be used for the OLC Classic, not the
FAI-OLC (FAI triangles) or the OLC League (speed tasks), and it probably
can't be used for U.S. contests.

The Garmin GPSMAP 76S is probably what you're thinking of. I've had one
for ~4 years now and still use it as a backup to my iPAQ running SeeYou
Mobile. It's a great little unit for soaring.

Jeremy

Just a small correction: The GPSMap76 can be used for US contests, and
I highly recommend it. It's currently my backup unit behind a
Cambridge Model 25 powering GlideNavigator II. For about $150 on
eBay, you can get one and be ready to go with no wiring or special
mounting required. It's clearly not the same as having a
purpose-built soaring application in the cockpit, but for the price
it's hard to beat.

P3

Hi,

I find the US contest rules very unclear as to what is required. The 2006
Sports Class Regionals rules on flight recorders are copied below. It is
unclear to me that a Garmin would be an acceptable system. I believe the
rules have changed in recent years on this matter.

What does it mean when it says "A Flight Recorder may record altitude
derived from a calculated position. " Does that mean that GPS altitude is
OK?

Paul Remde

6.7.1 All flight documentation is accomplished with Flight
Recorders.
6.7.2 Definitions
Flight Recorder - A device that makes a continuous
computerized log of a sailplane's position.
Flight log - The record of a flight made by a Flight
Recorder and transferred to a scoring computer.
Fix - the record of a single position point, including
time, latitude, longitude and altitude. A valid fix is one that lies along
the flight track of the sailplane, and is not displaced from that flight
track by an implausible distance or time. Throughout these Rules, only valid
fixes are considered; invalid fixes are ignored.
6.7.3 Flight recorder requirements
Flight recorders used for flight documentation must:
. ? Be a standard production model produced in quantity
by a reputable manufacturer.
. ? Record position fixes consisting of time, latitude,
longitude and altitude.
. ? Provide horizontal position referenced to the
WGS-84 geographic datum.
. ? Be capable of an interval between fixes of 15
seconds or less.[
. ? If used in a motorized sailplane, provide a means
of determining when the power unit was used (unless a separate means is
provided).
. ? If used as primary flight documentation for a score
that will count towards U.S. Team selection, be of a make and model that has
received IGC approval as Secure.
. ? If implemented as software that runs on a computer
readily programmable by the user (such as a PDA or handheld computer), be
IGC-approved as Secure.
6.7.4 Altitude recording
6.7.4.1 ? A Flight Recorder may record altitude derived
from a calculated position. The estimated altitude inaccuracy shall be
applied in a way unfavorable to the pilot (if the flight log does not
include a reliable estimate of this inaccuracy, a value of 75 feet shall be
used).
6.7.4.2 ? A Flight Recorder may record a calibratable
pressure altitude. If such a device is used in circumstances where altitude
is needed, the altitude inaccuracy determined from the best available
calibration data shall be applied in a way unfavorable to the pilot.
6.7.4.3 ? If a Flight Recorder records both calculated
and pressure altitude, pressure altitude will be the primary data source and
calculated altitude will be the backup data source for flight evaluation.
6.7.5 Data Format
The flight log from a Flght Recorder must be in (or readily
convertible to) a file that fully conforms to the IGC standard format. A
valid log file must include:
. A unique Flight Recorder ID.
. The date of the flight.
. The entrant's competition ID and name.
. A record of fixes.


"Papa3" wrote in message
oups.com...

Jeremy Zawodny wrote:
Paul Remde wrote:
Hi Richard,

I'd be glad to talk to him or you over the phone or Skype sometime.

If he wants to submit flights to the OLC then the minimum equipment
would be
a Garmin GPS like the 76 (I don't recall the exact model that has a
pressure
transducer). SeeYou or StrePla can download the flight recording and
upload
it to the OLC. However, it can only be used for the OLC Classic, not
the
FAI-OLC (FAI triangles) or the OLC League (speed tasks), and it
probably
can't be used for U.S. contests.

The Garmin GPSMAP 76S is probably what you're thinking of. I've had one
for ~4 years now and still use it as a backup to my iPAQ running SeeYou
Mobile. It's a great little unit for soaring.

Jeremy

Just a small correction: The GPSMap76 can be used for US contests, and
I highly recommend it. It's currently my backup unit behind a
Cambridge Model 25 powering GlideNavigator II. For about $150 on
eBay, you can get one and be ready to go with no wiring or special
mounting required. It's clearly not the same as having a
purpose-built soaring application in the cockpit, but for the price
it's hard to beat.

P3

Paul Remde wrote:
Hi,

I find the US contest rules very unclear as to what is required. The 2006
Sports Class Regionals rules on flight recorders are copied below. It is
unclear to me that a Garmin would be an acceptable system. I believe the
rules have changed in recent years on this matter.
6.7.4 Altitude recording
6.7.4.1 ? A Flight Recorder may record altitude derived
from a calculated position. The estimated altitude inaccuracy shall be
applied in a way unfavorable to the pilot (if the flight log does not
include a reliable estimate of this inaccuracy, a value of 75 feet shall be
used).
6.7.4.2 ? A Flight Recorder may record a calibratable
pressure altitude. If such a device is used in circumstances where altitude
is needed, the altitude inaccuracy determined from the best available
calibration data shall be applied in a way unfavorable to the pilot.
6.7.4.3 ? If a Flight Recorder records both calculated
and pressure altitude, pressure altitude will be the primary data source and


Hi Paul,

In practice, I can tell you that GPS Altitude Only recorders (ie.
6.7.4.1) have been used and accepted in regionals for several years.
Frankly, I don't think there has been a huge amount of thought applied
to the issue of altitude concerns; to some extent, it's pretty clear
that only if someone wanted to protest a result would anyone really
scrutinize this.

My point was/is that, in the case of someone who is may be just getting
into competition or testing the waters, a COTS GPS unit is a perfectly
acceptable solution. We need to stop making people think that they
need tons of sophisticated equipment to compete (not that you were
doing that, BTW, just editorializing)

Erik Mann
LS8-18 P3