ASH 26E VS DG 808C

Just to add to the decision, can I ask which ship has the most upright seating position? I seem to re-visit my lunch the more reclined I am, so this consideration is important to me. The 26E/808C/Antares are my dreams too..............


bagmaker

wrote:
So we have heard form two ASH 26 owners. Any DG 800-808 owners want to
opine? I have heard the build quality is better on the ASH than the
DG, how so?

It seems to me that Western flyers would want the extra wing loading in
the summer. How do the cockpits compare between the DG and ASH? What
about sealing from the factory?

Cockpit or the control surfaces?


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

"Transponders in Sailplanes" on the Soaring Safety Foundation website
www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/articles.html

"A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

wrote in message
oups.com...
So we have heard form two ASH 26 owners. Any DG 800-808 owners want to
opine? I have heard the build quality is better on the ASH than the
DG, how so?

This is best answered by really looking closely at these gliders. And if
you're considering buying one, then it may be best to take the time to do
this for yourself.

I had the opportunity to do that to a degree on the SSA convention floor. I
listed what I thought were the pros and cons of each ship to help me decide.
Still, I missed a bunch of stuff, like the robustness of the 26's main gear,
and many of the smaller things that I only discovered after really exploring
the ins and outs of my 26E after taking delivery.

Those that know me would vouch for this, I tend to be a perfectionist when
it comes to things mechanical. I appreciate things that have been made well
.. . . not just on the outside, but also beneath the skin.

BTW, advantages I listed for the DG 800 series included:

Much better factory web site.
More progressive factory, at least in terms of being willing to quickly
embrace new ideas and technology like NOAH and "Piggott hook".
Lower cockpit sides for ease of exit.
Two piece wings allow shorter trailer.

bumper





It seems to me that Western flyers would want the extra wing loading in
the summer. How do the cockpits compare between the DG and ASH? What
about sealing from the factory?

Allison

At 07:24 23 October 2006, Bumper wrote:

wrote in message
roups.com...
So we have heard form two ASH 26 owners. Any DG 800-808
owners want to
opine? I have heard the build quality is better on
the ASH than the
DG, how so?

This is best answered by really looking closely at
these gliders. And if
you're considering buying one, then it may be best
to take the time to do
this for yourself.

I had the opportunity to do that to a degree on the
SSA convention floor. I
listed what I thought were the pros and cons of each
ship to help me decide.
Still, I missed a bunch of stuff, like the robustness
of the 26's main gear,
and many of the smaller things that I only discovered
after really exploring
the ins and outs of my 26E after taking delivery.

Those that know me would vouch for this, I tend to
be a perfectionist when
it comes to things mechanical. I appreciate things
that have been made well
.. . . not just on the outside, but also beneath the
skin.

BTW, advantages I listed for the DG 800 series included:

Much better factory web site.
More progressive factory, at least in terms of being
willing to quickly
embrace new ideas and technology like NOAH and 'Piggott
hook'.
Lower cockpit sides for ease of exit.
Two piece wings allow shorter trailer.

bumper

A couple of DG800 advantages that bumper overlooked.

1) An engine that doesn't cost $17000 to replace.
2) An engine that can be worked on with out having
to remove it from the fuselage. While this may not
seem like something you will ever have to do you'll
want to keep a couple of big friends around for spark
plugs changes. I believe there were at least three
engines pulled for one problem or another at this years
ASA Parowan camp. They also had their own cart to haul
the engines around for repairs but I'm not sure if
thats a standard 26 option.
3) A superior engine management system (DEI) with manual
back up.

IMO the engine related issues sum up the big difference
between these two ships as performance both in glide
and under power are way similar. The 26 has a smoother
engine and the 800 has one, which is easier and cheaper
to maintain. They are both state of the art ships and
you won't be sorry for buying either.
DG has done a pretty fair comparison between the 26/800/Ventus
2cM that can be viewed here –
http://tinyurl.com/yz4shs

I don't know about the '26 cockpit, but I have experience in the '20 and
'27. They are both quite comfortable for me, at 5'-10" and 200#. My DG800B
seems slightly narrower, but is wider than a LS-6. The DG forces a slightly
knock-kneed position, because of the wider pedestal. Ergonomics and finish
seem about equal.
I wish DG would approve some really good fuel hoses---I have just spent the
last 4 months trying to get the engine to develop full power. Finally, an
engine bay fuel hose gave up the secret, by starting to leak! Replaced it
and, viola, full power again! It spent 6 wk living with an A&P (approved)
mechanic until it was found.
The prop brake requires some attention to make sure it produces the needed
friction. Ordinarily, engine retraction is as simple as can be.
Handling is really nice---like a E series Mercedes Benz. No, it is not a
Porsche, but I'll bet the '26 isn't either.

--
Hartley Falbaum


wrote in message
oups.com...
So we have heard form two ASH 26 owners. Any DG 800-808 owners want to
opine? I have heard the build quality is better on the ASH than the
DG, how so?

It seems to me that Western flyers would want the extra wing loading in
the summer. How do the cockpits compare between the DG and ASH? What
about sealing from the factory?

Allison

On Oct 22, 9:04 am, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Roger wrote:
What about the ablity with the 808 C comp to now fly at 10.4 Lbs verus
the 26's max wing loading of 9.2 Lbs,For most of my flying, the 8.2 lbs
my ASH 26 E flies at is just about
right. I often take off early, so even the 9.2 lbs I could go to isn't
useful, and most flights seem to include a slow part where I might dump
the ballast anyway. Also, I'm too lazy to bother putting in water for
the slight advantage it might give, except at contests or speed record
attempts.

A pilot flying the eastern ridges might prefer the extra lb of wing
loading, also one that flew in areas with routinely strong conditions,
or flew only in the heart of the day, and didn't mind putting the
ballast in.

the stearable tail wheelThe ASH 26 E has an excellent steerable
tailwheel for hard/firm
surfaces. For with _very_ soft fields, I suggest using the
interchangeable fixed pneumatic wheel or using the tail dolly to move it
into position.

and the
ability to fill the gas tank from a truck or gas pump?I've always found
it convenient to fill from a 5 gallon gas can I carry
in the glider (as do most DG owners) using the supplied electric pump
(this can carried or mounted permanently in the glider). I've never
wanted to move the glider to a pump or have a truck come to it. If you
need to fuel the glider at an airport where a can is not available, you
can easily carry a suitable container. In 12 seasons and 500 flights,
I've never been in this situation.



I too think the
26 is "prettier". Does the large canopy of the DG cause relection and
leak when it shrinks do the the cold from altitude?

On Oct 21, 7:05 pm, "bumper" wrote:
I did a lot of comparing and spent another 2 hours going back and
forth
between the 26E and the 808B. The comparing included talking to people
who
worked on both these gliders, including Tom Stowers and Larry
Mansberger (of
composite fame).

I chose the 26E.

Subsequent to this, about 4 years ago, I've had much more experience
and had
the chance to really "go over" my glider, and look at the competition
too.
Even with the "C" version now available, I'd make the same decision
again.

Of course, it's to be expected that an owner will tend to favor the
machine
he has invested in - - I guess. The 26 is not perfect, but it's the
very
best 18 meter self-launch available, both mechanically, and
esthetically
too.

bumper

wrote in
ooglegroups.com...

I know the comparison of ASH 26 VS DG 800's has been done, but now
that
DG has come out with a DG 808C I was wondering what self launching
guys
think? The new 808C allows wing loading of up to 10.2 Lbs compared
to
9.2 for the ASH 26? The new DG also has NOAH exit assist and stall
warning plus automated engine extraction and stowage. If you were in
the market today for a self launch which one would you choose? Plus
these designs are getting near the end of their life span, what would
you like to see in the next self launch glider?--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

"Transponders in Sailplanes" on the Soaring Safety Foundation
websitewww.soaringsafety.org/prevention/articles.html

"A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" atwww.motorglider.org

wrote:
I know the comparison of ASH 26 VS DG 800's has been done, but now that
DG has come out with a DG 808C I was wondering what self launching guys
think? The new 808C allows wing loading of up to 10.2 Lbs compared to
9.2 for the ASH 26? The new DG also has NOAH exit assist and stall
warning plus automated engine extraction and stowage. If you were in
the market today for a self launch which one would you choose? Plus
these designs are getting near the end of their life span, what would
you like to see in the next self launch glider?

Another place to ask this question is on the Auxiliary-powered Sailplane
Association's newsgroup at

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ASA-NewsGroup/

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

"Transponders in Sailplanes" on the Soaring Safety Foundation website
www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/articles.html

"A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/ash-dg-ventus-e.html

Subject: ASH 26E VS DG 808C
Author: Gary Evans mailto:Gary Evans
=20
Date/Time: 13:50 23 October 2006
http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/ash-dg-ventus-e.htmlDG has done a pretty
fair comparison between the 26/800/Ventus
2cM that can be viewed here -=20
http://tinyurl.com/yz4shs

I bought into an 808B syndicate at the beginning of the year and from
the first flight it was love. Engine aside I still remain astonished by
its abilty as a pure glider.
I am a relatively low hours pilot (circa 300) and this was my first
SLMG and first time with flaps but the DG has been a relatively easy
transition. Things like the piggot hook have definately helped as it
means you can actually have a parking brake and dont need that third
hand while you do your rnup checks.
I am definately not of the smaller width being 220lb & 5.8 but while
the cockpit is not roomy in that there are not many places to store
stuff and I pretty much fill it width ways I have found it remarkably
comfortable. I have had 4 flights this year over 7hrs and 15-20 over
5hrs and felt fine at the end of each of them - far better than any
other glider I have flown.
The view from the cockpit is wonderful and far less claustraphobic than
a Discus or ASW24 - never noticed any reflections.
The engine management is simplicity itself.
The glider is very manouverable on the ground with the large steerable
tail wheel
Easy to rig due to split light wings.
I have been behnd the panels and to me the build quality is at least as
good as schemp/schleicher.
Only downside is the vibration that can cause component failure if
engine is idled too much but on the upside the engine does not run as
hot and can be stowed earlier.
DGs Manuals are by far the best I have ever had and are extreemly
comprehensive.

rgds
Stephen Haley

HL Falbaum wrote:
I don't know about the '26 cockpit, but I have experience in the '20 and
'27. They are both quite comfortable for me, at 5'-10" and 200#. My DG800B
seems slightly narrower, but is wider than a LS-6. The DG forces a slightly
knock-kneed position, because of the wider pedestal. Ergonomics and finish
seem about equal.
I wish DG would approve some really good fuel hoses---I have just spent the
last 4 months trying to get the engine to develop full power. Finally, an
engine bay fuel hose gave up the secret, by starting to leak! Replaced it
and, viola, full power again! It spent 6 wk living with an A&P (approved)
mechanic until it was found.
The prop brake requires some attention to make sure it produces the needed
friction. Ordinarily, engine retraction is as simple as can be.
Handling is really nice---like a E series Mercedes Benz. No, it is not a
Porsche, but I'll bet the '26 isn't either.

--
Hartley Falbaum


wrote in message
oups.com...
So we have heard form two ASH 26 owners. Any DG 800-808 owners want to
opine? I have heard the build quality is better on the ASH than the
DG, how so?

It seems to me that Western flyers would want the extra wing loading in
the summer. How do the cockpits compare between the DG and ASH? What
about sealing from the factory?

Allison

On Oct 22, 9:04 am, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Roger wrote:
What about the ablity with the 808 C comp to now fly at 10.4 Lbs verus
the 26's max wing loading of 9.2 Lbs,For most of my flying, the 8.2 lbs
my ASH 26 E flies at is just about
right. I often take off early, so even the 9.2 lbs I could go to isn't
useful, and most flights seem to include a slow part where I might dump
the ballast anyway. Also, I'm too lazy to bother putting in water for
the slight advantage it might give, except at contests or speed record
attempts.

A pilot flying the eastern ridges might prefer the extra lb of wing
loading, also one that flew in areas with routinely strong conditions,
or flew only in the heart of the day, and didn't mind putting the
ballast in.

the stearable tail wheelThe ASH 26 E has an excellent steerable
tailwheel for hard/firm
surfaces. For with _very_ soft fields, I suggest using the
interchangeable fixed pneumatic wheel or using the tail dolly to move it
into position.

and the
ability to fill the gas tank from a truck or gas pump?I've always found
it convenient to fill from a 5 gallon gas can I carry
in the glider (as do most DG owners) using the supplied electric pump
(this can carried or mounted permanently in the glider). I've never
wanted to move the glider to a pump or have a truck come to it. If you
need to fuel the glider at an airport where a can is not available, you
can easily carry a suitable container. In 12 seasons and 500 flights,
I've never been in this situation.



I too think the
26 is "prettier". Does the large canopy of the DG cause relection and
leak when it shrinks do the the cold from altitude?

On Oct 21, 7:05 pm, "bumper" wrote:
I did a lot of comparing and spent another 2 hours going back and
forth
between the 26E and the 808B. The comparing included talking to people
who
worked on both these gliders, including Tom Stowers and Larry
Mansberger (of
composite fame).

I chose the 26E.

Subsequent to this, about 4 years ago, I've had much more experience
and had
the chance to really "go over" my glider, and look at the competition
too.
Even with the "C" version now available, I'd make the same decision
again.

Of course, it's to be expected that an owner will tend to favor the
machine
he has invested in - - I guess. The 26 is not perfect, but it's the
very
best 18 meter self-launch available, both mechanically, and
esthetically
too.

bumper

wrote in
ooglegroups.com...

I know the comparison of ASH 26 VS DG 800's has been done, but now
that
DG has come out with a DG 808C I was wondering what self launching
guys
think? The new 808C allows wing loading of up to 10.2 Lbs compared
to
9.2 for the ASH 26? The new DG also has NOAH exit assist and stall
warning plus automated engine extraction and stowage. If you were in
the market today for a self launch which one would you choose? Plus
these designs are getting near the end of their life span, what would
you like to see in the next self launch glider?--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

"Transponders in Sailplanes" on the Soaring Safety Foundation
websitewww.soaringsafety.org/prevention/articles.html

"A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" atwww.motorglider.org

Have not flown the DG800, just 300/500/600/1000. All those flew
nicely. One thing I found out about the AS-W26 is that it's a BEAUTIFUL
flying glider... Like an oversized 27, with perhaps an even more
comfortable cockpit. Coordination seems perfect (it has a big enough
rudder).
Mine has the heavier wings (they'll chase your friends away unless
you have a one-man rigger) but higher MGW and therefore higher maximum
wing loading. The lower serial numbers are also certified Experimental
in the USA, handy unless you're sending it overseas.
The LONG trailer is going to get my "lift kit" mod, a 2" square steel
tube between the axle and the trailer chassis. This helps with ground
clearance and is hardly noticeable for rigging.
Jim

JS wrote:

The LONG trailer is going to get my "lift kit" mod, a 2" square steel
tube between the axle and the trailer chassis. This helps with ground
clearance and is hardly noticeable for rigging.
Jim

Thanks for that idea!

My 800 has one piece wings and a trailer longer than an ASH-25's. I've
been wondering how to help it over drains and speed bumps.

GC