Solar storms spell trouble for GPS

Or it just does like the AC current in the power grid and
switch to the other side of the power curve. The actual
material doesn't have to move, the energy to flip over
billions of tons of spinning matter isn't there. But as an
A/C generator, it is just a question of electrons.




"Ross Richardson" wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| The Earth is rotating and orbiting within a strong
magnetic
| field of the Sun, [not to mention the whole Universe].
|
| The magnetic pole is not located on the axis and as a
result
| the variation wanders. It appears that the Earth's
magnetic
| field is electromagnetic and AC.
|
| The Earth doesn't physically flip over, the phase angle
| flips.
|
|
|
| "Ross Richardson" wrote in message
| ...
| | Larry Dighera wrote:
| | On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 06:17:38 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
| | wrote in
| | :
| |
| |
| | BFD, All those radios are called Aids to navigation
for
| a
| | reason, they are conveniences.
| |
| |
| | Were you aware of the design flaw in GPS as
implemented?
| I just
| | thought it might be a good idea to provide the
| information to those
| | weren't.
| |
| | Of course, this issue makes no mention of solar mass
| ejections, that
| | can potentially knock out any satellite.
| |
| | It appears that we are (finally?) seeing some
| technological innovation
| | tickling down to the GA fleet, but I'm becoming
uneasy
| with the
| | apparent lack of robustness engineered in these
early
| systems.
| |
| |
| | CAL found Paris with just a compass and a chart.
| |
| | Yes. It was an Earth Inductor Compass*. I've never
| seen one of those
| | in any aircraft in which I've flown, let alone
piloted.
| |
| |
| | *
http://oldbeacon.com/beacon/earth_inductor_compass.htm
| |
| |
| | Did anybody see NOVA on PBS last night. The earth is
| overdue for a pole
| | reversal. According to the program, we are already
seeing
| issues towards
| | that. Interesting program.
| |
| | --
| |
| | Regards, Ross
| | C-172F 180HP
| | KSWI
|
|
| What this program stated and I had read it elsewhere, is
the magnetic
| core within the earth had flipped every 200K to 700K
years. Geologist
| know how to figure this out from core samples. They said
the last one
| was over 700K years ago. The north magnetic pole (as we
know it) flips
| to the south pole.
|
| --
|
| Regards, Ross
| C-172F 180HP
| KSWI

There a post about the age of GPS, I just pointed out that
it was commercially available and used in 1986. Our news
servers had some problems, your post was what I had visible.
I don't recall seeing any thing I wrote that should have
insulted you.



"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
| On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 14:46:39 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
| wrote in
| :
|
| The aircraft had a dual King 660 FM system with GPS.
| STRONG Dick Rutan - Voyager Flight Fun Facts Voyager's
| flight was the first-ever, non-stop, unrefueled flight
| around the world. It took place between December 14 and
| December 23, 1986. ...
| www.dickrutan.com/page2.html - 5k - Cached -
Similar
| pages
|
| 1986
|
| I'm sorry, but I fail to see how that relates to anything
I wrote in
| the article to which you are following up.
|

The Earth compass, was powered by a windmill, just as many
crop dusters power their spray pumps, and similarly to using
a venturi to power gyros, if you're flying you have power.
Using a retractable generator is even part of the modern jet
airliner.

Yes, when your G1000 dies, you will have very limited
navigation or even communication options. Check out the
difference between a Beech Baron or Bonanza G36/G58 and a
Cessna NAV III on the manual section at Garmin. com




"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
|
|
| "Larry Dighera" wrote in message
| .. .
| | On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 06:17:38 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
| | wrote in
| | :
| |
| |
| | BFD, All those radios are called Aids to navigation
for
| a
| | reason, they are conveniences.
| |
| | Were you aware of the design flaw in GPS as
implemented?
| I just
| | thought it might be a good idea to provide the
information
| to those
| | weren't.
| |
| | Of course, this issue makes no mention of solar mass
| ejections, that
| | can potentially knock out any satellite.
| |
| | It appears that we are (finally?) seeing some
| technological innovation
| | tickling down to the GA fleet, but I'm becoming uneasy
| with the
| | apparent lack of robustness engineered in these early
| systems.
| |
| |
| | CAL found Paris with just a compass and a chart.
| |
| | Yes. It was an Earth Inductor Compass*. I've never
seen
| one of those
| | in any aircraft in which I've flown, let alone piloted.
| |
| |
| | *
http://oldbeacon.com/beacon/earth_inductor_compass.htm
|
| On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 14:38:27 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
| wrote in
| :
|
| An early version if the slaved compass, just like nearly
all
| cabin class and all G1000 systems use.
|
| Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a slaved compass
require
| electrical power to operate? "Slim's" Earth Inductor
Compass didn't
| require any power except that generated by the coil
rotating in the
| Earth's magnetic field. So if I'm correct, those pilots
flying behind
| a dead glass-cockpit would only have a whiskey compass to
navigate
| with.

"RST Engineering" wrote in message ...
: Then we need to resurrect the Tate Compass Company, who installed the
: magnets in their compasses backwards so that North was South, East was West.
:
: This started the old saying, "He who has a Tate's is lost".
:
: Jim
:
:
:

My daughter says that joke should die....


;-)

"RR" == Ross Richardson writes:
RR What this program stated and I had read it elsewhere, is the
RR magnetic core within the earth had flipped every 200K to 700K
RR years. Geologist know how to figure this out from core
RR samples.

Not from core samples. We've come nowhere near the earth's core.
Rather, from now-solid rock that was previously molten and iron
particles free to align to the earth's magnetic field; get enough of
those samples which were molten at different geologic periods and you
can figure out the history of the earth's magnetic field.

If the core is 1,000 miles in diameter, the forces required
to actually tumble the semi-solid material, overcoming the
friction with mantle and the gyroscopic forces would be so
great that the Earth would not survive. In fact, I have a
theory.

The planet Venus orbits the Sun in the same direction as all
the other planets, but it rotates backward. I think Venus
was a wanderer and struck the Earth, knocking it into the 23
incline, slowing Venus enough to be captured in the Sun
gravity as an orbiting planet and also giving Venus its
backward rotation. This collision also created the Moon.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Bob Fry" wrote in message
...
| "RR" == Ross Richardson
writes:
| RR What this program stated and I had read it
elsewhere, is the
| RR magnetic core within the earth had flipped every
200K to 700K
| RR years. Geologist know how to figure this out from
core
| RR samples.
|
| Not from core samples. We've come nowhere near the
earth's core.
| Rather, from now-solid rock that was previously molten and
iron
| particles free to align to the earth's magnetic field; get
enough of
| those samples which were molten at different geologic
periods and you
| can figure out the history of the earth's magnetic field.

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 17:49:46 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
wrote in
:


There a post about the age of GPS, I just pointed out that
it was commercially available and used in 1986. Our news
servers had some problems, your post was what I had visible.

Ah, I see. And your point is that GPS has been around a long time,
and you have heard no mention of anomalous behavior due to solar
storms. But if you look at the information in some of the links I
posted, you'll find that those who are intimately involved with GPS
operations have observed significant errors in various locations as a
result of changes in the ionosphere such as convective plasma
currents, etc.

I don't recall seeing any thing I wrote that should have
insulted you.

I wasn't insulted; confused.

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 17:54:17 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
wrote in
:

The Earth compass, was powered by a windmill, just as many
crop dusters power their spray pumps, and similarly to using
a venturi to power gyros, if you're flying you have power.
Using a retractable generator is even part of the modern jet
airliner.

A propeller turned an armature, but there were no field coils; the
Earth's magnetic field played that role; thus no battery, nor
generator, nor venturi, nor vacuum pump nor any other power source was
required to operate it, unlike a slaved compass..

Yes, when your G1000 dies, you will have very limited
navigation or even communication options.

If you're in IMC at the time of such a failure, you're only landing
option will be a GCA approach, unless you have portable Nav equipment.

Check out the
difference between a Beech Baron or Bonanza G36/G58 and a
Cessna NAV III on the manual section at Garmin. com

What will I find?

Jim Macklin wrote:
BFD, All those radios are called Aids to navigation for a
reason, they are conveniences. CAL found Paris with just a
compass and a chart.

Well, he did have to ask directions.

Larry Dighera wrote:
http://www.newscientisttech.com/chan...e-for-gps.html
Solar storms spell trouble for GPS

SOLAR flares can drown out GPS signals with potentially serious
consequences for airlines, emergency services, and anyone relying on
satellite navigation.

The trouble with the Chicken Littles of the world is that they cry
"Wolf!" far too often (how is that for mixing allegories?). When I was
in college, the Club of Rome assured us we would be completely out of
resources by 1980. Earlier than that, we were going to have a complete
totalitarian takeover by 1984. The world was going to end with the Y2K
"bug" on Jan 1, 2000. And when that didn't happen, then it was going to
end on Jan 1, 2001. Every slot machine in Las Vegas was going to empty
itself at midnight on Dec 31, 1999 because it would suddenly indicate
that it had not paid since 1899 or something like that. The solar
flares were supposed to destroy all radio communications in the 1980s,
then the 1990s, then in 2000, now 2011. The peak activity cycle appears
to be constantly pushed back by these doomsayers.

Someday, of course, they will be right, and they will all get to say "I
told you so!" except we will all be dead because we stopped listening
to them. Someday the solar flares will shut down all the radios. And
all the airplanes will fall out of the sky and all the ships will hit
icebergs (if they have not all melted by then) and the earth's magnetic
field will flip--flop and the asteroid will hit and the giant
super-volcano will erupt and a tsunami 5 kilometers high will hit the
coast and California will fall into the sea and we will not be able to
do anything about it because we will have used all of our nuclear
weapons to knock ourselves back to the stone age and all the resources
will be gone and we will be reduced to driving horse and buggies but
the hoof and mouth will get the horses and we will have to support
ourselves by selling our kidneys but someone will already have stolen
one of them and, anyway we will all be living on rafts because the
icecaps will have melted and our rafts will be sliding around on the
global ice sheets caused by the icecaps melting.

Maybe I am just an old fool, but I suspect that if there is really a
problem that somebody else who has an actual engineering degree will
solve it and make a lot of money doing it. Or maybe somebody will just
convince all the politicians that there is a problem where there is not
one and we will just have our taxes doubled to pay for an unneeded
solution.