OT - Video Card Question(s)

You can get a Dell E520 with similar options (including FSX Deluxe) for
about half the price...

I just tried again, using the E520 as a starting point, and got the
price down to $1400.

Better, but still not half price!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...
Okay, this thread isn't totally off-topic, as my questions are related
to making the piloting experience more real in the sim. It's time to
upgrade the Kiwi!

(See it he http://alexisparkinn.com/the_kiwi_is_born.htm ).

I want to add a second monitor (dedicated for the panel), and use the
104" projection screen for the "out-the-window-world-view" only. This
means that I need a video card with two video outputs. "Lesser" models
seem to have a single DVI output and a single VGA (AKA: D-Sub) output,
while "better" models have two DVI outputs.
snip

I do not disagree with the many other suggestions you have received here and
as usual I am impressed by the diversity and depth of knowledge and
competence of this group. My simple contribution will no doubt reflect my
lack of experience with the 'bleeding edge' of technology and reflects my
techno strategy of 'using last years best'.

I have been using multiple monitors since W98 (and maybe even W95?) and have
found it to provide great usability and functionality and has allowed me to
have lots of screen real estate without the need to purchase huge monitors.
IIRC, Using multiple monitors with W9x did require a bit of tweaking but the
I have found the process to be straightforward and painless with WXPpro.

I currently have a couple of machines with dual head cards made by ATI and
Matrox. I have purchased these cards both new and from surplus jobbers and
have never paid $90. New Matrox AGP dual head cards are available locally
for ~$22, and higher end ATI dual head AGP cards run ~$50-75.

I have made it a practice to collect any reasonably priced PCI video cards
that I find available and I find these cards very serviceable for running
secondary monitors with my admittedly less demanding mainly 'office type'
applications. Real gamers will have higher requirements but I have had good
results with MSFS but have not run the newest versions so they may be more
demanding of hardware performance. I have always intuitively felt that
using video cards from one mfgr would limit compatibility problems but have
read many reports of people who solved these problems by using cards from
different mfgr. I have not had any compatibility problems either way.

Your power supply does seem a little on the small side but I have
successfully run multiple monitors with similar power supplies.

I would suggest that you find some simple PCI cards and try it out, you have
little to lose and you probably have some of these cards available if you
look. There is no reason to limit yourself to two monitors as you are only
limited by the number of PCI slots in your box (and the size of your power
supply). Extra fans are always a good idea, don't be afraid to cut a hole
in the side of your box to mount a big fan pointed directly at your cards,
MB and memory. I bet that there is a local tech jobber who has lots of both
cards and power supplies either NOS or 'gently' used and for very low cost.
The current local cost for PCI video cards is $10-35. I bet your teenagers
or their friends know lots of bargain tech sources for slightly out of date
(non bleeding edge) equipment. The net is full of them but a local guy can
be a great source of both gear and advice and will be easier to find if the
gear is faulty or does not work. The local guy will also be a good source
for bargain memory which will benefit any setup. I have also had no
problems with using primary single output AGP cards and one or more low end
PCI cards also with single output.

I will admit that most of my usage of MSFS has been as an IFR and NAV-aid
simulator and I was not really looking to maximize the out the window
experience.

I suspect that when you discover how easy it is to have two monitors that
you will also want this functionality in your 'office' machine as you will
find it really nice to have a spreadsheet or a letter you are answering on
one monitor while you are writing another letter on the second monitor. I
find two small monitors to be much more functional than one larger monitor,
YMMV.

Good luck.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in news:1164051117.927132.80760
@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

You can get a Dell E520 with similar options (including FSX Deluxe) for
about half the price...

I just tried again, using the E520 as a starting point, and got the
price down to $1400.

Better, but still not half price!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Hi Jay,

When I posted the message originally, it was based on an E520 at $904.

Two things that might have made up the $500 difference:

1) I didn't get the "PC-Care" support plan that they pushed at the start. I
opted for the standard 1 year support plan.

Besides, after the 1st year, the thing is only worth $500 anyway... And if
the thing breaks in 3 years, you buy another one for $900 and call it an
upgrade - you're still better off than the $2000 you would have paid
otherwise.

2) I didn't get the special sound-blaster card. I got the Sound-blaster
Audiology On Board. I don't know what it means, but I can't imagine that
engine noise sounds all that much better in SoundBlaster-audiology than it
does in the 7.1 on-board...

3) I didn't get the floppy drive. I didn't think you could even buy
floppies anymore.

4) No monitor - it looked like you already had the monitors covered.

My Components
Intel ® Core™2 Duo Processor E6400 (2.13GHz, 1066 FSB)
Genuine Windows® XP Media Center 2005 Edition
Express Upgrade to Windows Vista Home Premium from XP Media Center Edition
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2DIMMs
160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
16x DVD+/-RW Drive
No Monitor
256MB ATI Radeon X1300 Pro
Integrated Sound Blaster®Audigy™ HD Software Edition
My Accessories
No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system)
Dell USB Keyboard and Dell 2-button Scroll Mouse
No Floppy Drive Included
56K PCI Data Fax Modem
My Software
No productivity suite- Includes Microsoft Works 8. DOES NOT INCLUDE MS WORD
No Security Subscription
Trial pack- Basic and trial products from Corel and Yahoo
My Service
1Yr Ltd Warranty and At-Home Service
6 Months of EarthLink Internet Access Included
Also Includes
Mouse included in Wireless, Laser or Bluetooth Package
Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 7.0
Integrated 10/100 Ethernet
Windows Vista™ Capable
Award Winning Service and Support
Vista Capable Sticker

$904

"Jay Honeck" wrote in news:1164051117.927132.80760
@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

You can get a Dell E520 with similar options (including FSX Deluxe) for
about half the price...

I just tried again, using the E520 as a starting point, and got the
price down to $1400.

Better, but still not half price!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"



I should point out the E520 is only a E6400 chip, instead of E6600 chip. I'm
not much of a gamer, but I suspect you won't notice the difference.
Frankly, I suspect you might not have noticed the difference between that and
a E6300, but for $50 a few more hundred MHz is probably worthwhile...

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006, Jay Honeck wrote:

I want to add a second monitor (dedicated for the panel), and use the
104" projection screen for the "out-the-window-world-view" only. This
means that I need a video card with two video outputs.

Our flight sim PC is a Dell Optiplex GX260, Pentium 4, with a gig of
RAM -- but only an AGP slot for video card upgrade. The current card
is a Radeon 7000, with just 32 mb of on-board memory, and a single VGA
port.

If your software will do it, any old cheapie PCI video card should do just
fine for the panel. I wouldn't think it would care about super high frame
rate, resolution, etc. A computer store will probably give you someone's
old cast-off 4MB PCI card for the panel, and keep your existing AGP card
for the main screen.

Of course, it all depends on what the software will do.

-Dan

Top posting, unusually.

I didn't see an operating system included. I would think it wise to get XP Pro,
since this is a MS game that will be used.
--
Jim in NC


"Judah" wrote

My Components
Intel ® Core™2 Duo Processor E6400 (2.13GHz, 1066 FSB)
Genuine Windows® XP Media Center 2005 Edition
Express Upgrade to Windows Vista Home Premium from XP Media Center Edition
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2DIMMs
160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
16x DVD+/-RW Drive
No Monitor
256MB ATI Radeon X1300 Pro
Integrated Sound Blaster®Audigy™ HD Software Edition
My Accessories
No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system)
Dell USB Keyboard and Dell 2-button Scroll Mouse
No Floppy Drive Included
56K PCI Data Fax Modem
My Software
No productivity suite- Includes Microsoft Works 8. DOES NOT INCLUDE MS WORD
No Security Subscription
Trial pack- Basic and trial products from Corel and Yahoo
My Service
1Yr Ltd Warranty and At-Home Service
6 Months of EarthLink Internet Access Included
Also Includes
Mouse included in Wireless, Laser or Bluetooth Package
Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 7.0
Integrated 10/100 Ethernet
Windows Vista™ Capable
Award Winning Service and Support
Vista Capable Sticker

$904

"Morgans" wrote in message
...
Top posting, unusually.

I didn't see an operating system included. I would think it wise to get
XP Pro, since this is a MS game that will be used.

Look at the second item in Judah's list (the list you quoted when you top
posted).

The Media Center Edition is fine (and may even be desirable). Though,
personally I think anyone buying a Windows operating system today should
make sure that part of the deal is a voucher for a free upgrade to Vista. I
can't say whether Vista will or will not be a major improvement, but one
thing is for su it is the new standard for Windows PCs, and it would be
silly today to spend the $100 (or whatever) on a copy of XP, when it's
already basically obsolete.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in
:

Look at the second item in Judah's list (the list you quoted when you
top posted).

The Media Center Edition is fine (and may even be desirable). Though,
personally I think anyone buying a Windows operating system today should
make sure that part of the deal is a voucher for a free upgrade to
Vista. I can't say whether Vista will or will not be a major
improvement, but one thing is for su it is the new standard for
Windows PCs, and it would be silly today to spend the $100 (or whatever)
on a copy of XP, when it's already basically obsolete.

The free Vista Upgrade was listed on the third line. It was free.

Judah wrote in news:Xns9881ED410721AJudahnospamnet@
69.28.186.158:

The free Vista Upgrade was listed on the third line. It was free.

Although I just noticed it's an upgrade to Vista Home, not Vista Pro. I'm
somewhat surprised, because XP Media Edition is based on XP Pro...

Might be worth a few bucks if they want it for Vista Pro upgrade voucher...
I'm not up to date with the different Vista flavors - will they have a Vista
Media Center? Will it be based on Vista Pro?

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..
Judah wrote in news:Xns9881ED410721AJudahnospamnet@
69.28.186.158:

The free Vista Upgrade was listed on the third line. It was free.

Although I just noticed it's an upgrade to Vista Home, not Vista Pro. I'm
somewhat surprised, because XP Media Edition is based on XP Pro...

Might be worth a few bucks if they want it for Vista Pro upgrade
voucher...
I'm not up to date with the different Vista flavors - will they have a
Vista
Media Center? Will it be based on Vista Pro?

Microsoft lists 4 versions of Vista he
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvist...s/default.mspx but I
think it'll be 7 different versions total. Probably if you get an upgrade
voucher for the Home version, you might be able to apply it towards one of
the 'better' versions.

As far as Pete wondering if XP is going to be obsolete soon, I doubt it.
Microsoft may drop the XP Home version first but the other 4 versions of XP
should last for a few more years. There's still plenty of stuff out there
that doesn't require Vista, yet. Microsoft just quit supporting 98 and ME
this past summer...

-Greg B.