A reluctance to take the controls

In any case, kudos to Mary for *asking* instead of making her feel
compelled to take the controls. I hate it when someone "asks" you to do
something in such a way that you feel you can't comfortably decline. You
*do* realize, don't you Jay, that if you made her feel dumb, afraid or
like she disappointed *you* because she declined that you may have just
made her think twice about going up with you again. There's a reason for
the term "different strokes".

Jay:
You would do well to concentrate on the topic at hand, rather than
making gross generalizations and speculating about things I personally
might have said or done.

No one was made to feel dumb, and no one was disappointed because she
didn't take the controls. I brought this subject up simply because I
found her lack of eagerness puzzling, and I believe that understanding
this could perhaps be key to figuring out how to get MORE people
interested in flying.

You may note that I said, **IF**. And my comments also addressed
understanding the topic. Not everyone gets interested in flying by
having the controls put in their hands when they aren't ready ... in
fact, some can be turned off by pushing that on them. Mary asked, she
declined ... but maybe just being asked will cause her to give it some
thought on her own. Sometimes that's better than coming across too
aggressively with your enthusiasm. It wasn't off topic, just another
POV, since you asked.

Jay Honeck writes:

This isn't isn't something I'm going to lose any sleep over, but I
think if we can get more people like her interested in flying (I.E.:
Willing and happy to fly in a light plane, but not willing or eager to
take the controls) GA will stand a much better chance of survival.

A lack of interest isn't as much of a danger to GA as the extremely
high cost of participation. Make GA inexpensive, and people will
flock to it. Right now, it's just too inaccessible.

The other major danger to GA is the climate of fear that is turning
the U.S. and the world into a police state. GA will eventually be
regulated out of existence.

Further, it would be excellent to grow the women's pilot population,
which still inexplicably stands at just 6% of all pilots.

Given the attitudes that a great many male pilots have, I'm not
surprised that the women stay away. As a general rule, though, women
tend not to be interested in vehicles for their own sake.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

A lack of interest isn't as much of a danger to GA as the extremely
high cost of participation. Make GA inexpensive, and people will
flock to it. Right now, it's just too inaccessible.

It's inaccessible to many, but not most. Plenty of people who *could*
fly choose not to -- that is our target audience.

The other major danger to GA is the climate of fear that is turning
the U.S. and the world into a police state. GA will eventually be
regulated out of existence.

That's the least of our worries.

Given the attitudes that a great many male pilots have, I'm not
surprised that the women stay away. As a general rule, though, women
tend not to be interested in vehicles for their own sake.

It's not the airplanes -- it's the freedom. That's what we need to
accentuate.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

unicate writes:
No, but that may indeed have been part of it. She may be more
comfortable with JUST Mary in the plane, or with a professional
instructor that isn't a personal friend so that she doesn't feel as self
conscious about doing something wrong.

Mxsmanic wrote:
That type of performance insecurity is more common in men than women.
Women are not expected to be good at "manly" things, so they are under
less pressure.

I completely disagree with that! When men make mistakes in the cockpit,
they are not apt to make an issue out of it, it is quietly discussed and
that's that; women are cut FAR less slack for those same mistakes. Huge
generalizing there, but IMO, the expectations and amount of pressure on
women are both far greater.

But a far simpler explanation is that she simply wasn't interested,
period.

That was probably the case. If not, she would have said something about
it after landing. She still may, if the invite to go fly arises again.

Thank you. He just doesn't seem to get this concept.

mike

"Doug" wrote in message
oups.com...
Jay, you sound like one of these guys "who just can't understand how
somebody could be DIFFERENT than you are". I mean, just HOW could that
be???

Jay Honeck writes:

It's inaccessible to many, but not most. Plenty of people who *could*
fly choose not to -- that is our target audience.

It shouldn't be. Yes, many people could fly if they made appropriate
sacrifices. But the vast majority of people aren't interested enough
in flying to do that. If you try to address that market, you'll never
succeed.

The cost/benefit ratio has to be attractive. The cost of GA is so
extraordinarily high that only a tiny few are willing and able to pay
it. Unless you reduce the cost, it will always be a minority
activity.

That's the least of our worries.

Tell that to pilots in the District of Columbia.

It's not the airplanes -- it's the freedom. That's what we need to
accentuate.

It's laudable to make women more welcome and I'm sure it would improve
their stats, if the macho men could force themselves to do it.
However, flying is always likely to appeal to more men than women, so
a 50/50 ratio would be unlikely.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Jay Honeck wrote:
That first lesson was an eye opener - a plane is like a 3D motorcycle.
Now I'm hooked. I'll be tooling around central Indiana in a J-3 Cub
an hour and a half from now.

That's kind of the effect I'm looking for in people -- and we usually
get it!

What I don't understand is that you never felt the desire to try out
the controls when your wife was PIC. It would have seemed the perfect
opportunity to test the waters, and I (like, I believe most people)
would have jumped at the chance.


I'm with you Jay. But I may be different that most. Given the chance
to take the controls of almost any machine, I would jump at it. I have
zero desire to own or pilot a boat, but if I happened to be on one, and
was asked if I would like to try to drive it, I would not hesitate.
Same for just about anything from a backhoe to the QE2


--
Chris W
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Lots of people, men and women have a desire to not look
stupid or incompetent in public. It is a little like the
public speaking phobia. If you are not a dancer, you would
probably not get up on a stage. If you're not a pilot,
ditto.

What a CFI does, is explain, demonstrate and explain.
Pilots know it is easy. But usually, when a CFI is
involved, there is already an eager student.

Point out the visual references used to control the
airplane. Act like a tour guide not a CFI, "See over the
wing tip, that's the Mississippi River and over the other
wing is the other branch of the Missouri River. That's the
St.Louis Arch straight ahead." Drop a casual comment about
using your finger tips to move the airplane to keep the
landmarks in view.

Then ask if they want to try it. People now what they don't
know [unless they're drunk] and without a little coaching
about "how to DIY" they will decline to learn in public.



"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...
| In any case, kudos to Mary for *asking* instead of making
her feel
| compelled to take the controls. I hate it when someone
"asks" you to do
| something in such a way that you feel you can't
comfortably decline. You
| *do* realize, don't you Jay, that if you made her feel
dumb, afraid or
| like she disappointed *you* because she declined that
you may have just
| made her think twice about going up with you again.
There's a reason for
| the term "different strokes".
|
| You would do well to concentrate on the topic at hand,
rather than
| making gross generalizations and speculating about things
I personally
| might have said or done.
|
| No one was made to feel dumb, and no one was disappointed
because she
| didn't take the controls. I brought this subject up
simply because I
| found her lack of eagerness puzzling, and I believe that
understanding
| this could perhaps be key to figuring out how to get MORE
people
| interested in flying.
| --
| Jay Honeck
| Iowa City, IA
| Pathfinder N56993
| www.AlexisParkInn.com
| "Your Aviation Destination"
|

On 26 Nov 2006 05:56:03 -0800, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

It just seems odd to me, and rather sad. I don't want folks believing
that airplanes fall out of the sky as soon as an experienced pilot lets
go of the controls...


The biggest reason I've had people "refuse" to take the wheel is that
they are enjoying the flight! Looking out the window, talking to
their friends, laughing, and just absorbing as much of the experience
as possible. You say the girl is smart, could it be she is smart
enough to know once she takes the controls that she'll have to focus
on doing the flying instead of just having a fun experience? Or maybe
she knows she won't be steady at the wheel, and doesn't want to
disrupt a good experience for her boyfriend by putting him on a roller
coaster ride. And then there's the possibility that she doesn't want
to be judged at how well or poorly she did when all she really wanted
to do was have a fun flight. I could go on.... Suffice it to say
there are many reasons someone wouldn't want to "drive", none of which
are related to them being ignorant or, as you say are a "sad"
commentary on who they are. To judge someone like you are just
because you don't understand what they are thinking is the sad part.
I actually think its pretty cool that some people know themselves well
enough to know what they want to do, and what they'd rather just be
spectators in.

z

("Jose" wrote)
... and that is what we are trying to tell you. Not all of us are as keen
on [certain] things as you are. If I gave you a chance to make a pot on a
potter's wheel, or to run spotlight at the community theater, would you be
"all over it like stink on you-know-what"?


Every show they need extra volunteers and I get asked to "run a spot". Every
show I decline. g


Mont-fade-to-black
http://www.bloomingtoncivictheater.com/
(BCT ....Community Theater, though we're good enough to be considered a
Regional Theater - brag, brag, brag)