MS Flight Sim As a Training Tool

"Jose" wrote in message
t...
Incidentally setting a transponder code and squawking ident is something
that MSFS simulates pretty poorly

Agreed. So poorly it's incredible.

Actually I'm surprised that joysticks don't come with a few knobs. It
would make all the difference.

Jose
--

???

Please tell me you're kidding.

Have you not ever seen a CH yoke that has many buttons as well as a
throttle, mixture and prop controls...?
Have you not ever seen a Thrustmaster rig (separate joystick and throttle)
that is modeled after the HOTAS concept of modern fighters like the F16?
IIRC, it can be programmed to handle some 70 different things without ever
touching your keyboard.

Ok, now I'm sure you're kidding me.

Jay B

Go Gig Go...

You'll get that Pig to sing eventually...

LOL

Jay B

Please tell me you're kidding.

I'm not kidding. I've seen joysticks with throttles, sliders, millions
of buttons, (ok, I'm kidding about that one), and little hat switches.
What I have =not= seen is one with a knob that turns like a radio tuning
knob. At least not one in the $60 range. Spend enough and you can get
anything, but radio knobs should have long ago made it down to the ten
dollar sticks.

If you know of one that has such a knob, I'd be interested. (and in
that vein, how would I get MSFS 2002 to respond to it by tuning the radios?)

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

yes -- there's no way MSFS can provide nor produce the same tactile and
physiological feeling of air pockets, the landing "bump", turbulence,
spins, the need to land *immediately* when you have one of those
"bad sushi" episodes, seeing an F-16 along side (or these days, a
Coast Guard helicopter), and so on...

The feedback forces of the controls vary from one type of aircraft to
another, from one model of aircraft to another, and even from one tail
number to another. In fact, they even vary from time to time on a
single airframe after maintenance is performed, or with wear and tear.
So worrying excessively about a precise simulation of these forces in
a sim is unjustified.

I tried to reason with you... it's impossible... you're a copmlete
numbskull.

I'll give you perfect example. In my sim, I've found that it's hard
to be sure when the control surfaces are positioned exactly at their
neutral positions. However, some here may recall that I asked about
how one determines the neutral positions of control surfaces in real
aircraft. I was told that there isn't really an exact neutral
position per se in most real aircraft. Given this, I stopped fretting
about the exact neutral position in the sim. Maybe I have the rudder
perfectly centered, maybe not. But in real life I wouldn't have it
any more precisely positioned than I do in the sim, so why seek a
precision in the sim that is overwhelmed by random variations in the
real world?

I see you've been in the WC reloading for another speech.

Another example: If the pressure exerted by the yoke against your arms
varies between 9 and 11 lbs in a certain configuration on a certain
aircraft in a certain situation, there is no reason to insist that a
sim reproduce this pressure with a precision of 0.01 lbs. The
real-world variation is much greater than the sim's precision, so the
sim is "as real as it need get."

This was already addressed, it's not the same and it doesn't come down
to lbs.

If you can't start an engine, you aren't going to be flying anywhere,
in the sim or in real life. You're not flying when you start the
engine.

But it's part of being a pilot, and you have close to no idea how an
airplane engine works... one of the requirnments of a real pilot is
that they understand how the airplane they are flying workds...

To show your expertise on the Beech Baron exaplain to me please how the
variable pitchs propeller on the Baron works. Explain to me and
identify the components of the gear and flap systems.

The reason you cannot do this is because you are not a real pilot, nor
have you received any training.

A simulator does not re create the stresses that you feel being
excerted upon the aircraft, such as the distinct sound of an engine
operating at too high of a manifold pressure for the engine to handle.

So? Here again, this is something that varies by aircraft type, aircraft
model, flight configuration, weather, engine condition, tail number,
and so on. There is no need for a perfectly faithful reproduction of
a real aircraft, unless the sim is designed to reproduce only that
single tail number in only that single instant of time, and nothing
else.

So? It's not the real thing.

A simulator does not re create the changes of trim as the cowl flaps
are retracted.

On the aircraft I fly in the sim, the cowl flaps have no effect on
trim. Someone complained about that, and it turns out that they have
no effect on trim in real life, either.

Hey cretin... it does... step into a Cardinal and pull them up and feel
that plane start descending.

You don't really need a sim for that. You can just pretend.

But ah... real life and being a real pilot is not about "pretending",
it's about real life and real people, not sociopaths.

That depends on the simulator.

It doesn't plain and simple and there is no way to simulate what the
aircraft does during that.

Some simulators do--MS FSX does. I don't know if MSFS 2004 does.

The G forces are no big deal unless you are doing aerobatics.

You've never felt them... how would you know Mr. Expert?

Again you don't, I'd love to see you get thrown about a cabin and tell
me that they're meaningless.

It allows you to pause and get a drink.

You can get a drink in flight, too. It's even a good idea.

Wheres the pause button on my Dash 8? SHOW IT.

Yes, they do, at least in MSFS. Landing in significant turbulence is
quite a challenge. I've gone through two sets of gear in the past few
days thanks to turbulence.

Significant turbulence... not calm air that is slighly turbulent near
the ground, you have no clue what I'm talking about.

No, you bounce if you aren't careful. And if you bounce enough, you
lose the gear. And if you bounce more than that, you crash.

Not like in a real airplane, something no computer can ever project
properly is ground friction.

Someone said you could set the gear retract on a Baron and it would
pull up the gear on the ground if you bounced around too much. I
tried it in the sim, and it happens in the sim, too.

Not for the same reason.

Is there? I suppose that's a matter of opinion.

Yes... my oppinion is you're psychotic.

Quite so. Sims have been used for trains for over 30 years. Sims
have come into use for tractor-trailer rigs over the past few years as
well. Often nearly all the training can be done in a sim; moving
about in real life is limited to the minimum necessary to prove that
one can pass a test.

Yes... but all those sims have an instructor teaching the student...
noone gives a student a several million dollar piece of equipment and
says "do as you will".

So , you may find a reasonable degree of
succes trying to take off in a real Beech Baron, but you'll get chicken
skin the moment you feel the torque pull you to the side as the turbos
spool up ...

Why?

Because you are not a pilot and you have never experienced the torque
effect of a propeller.

It gets more complicated if the pilot has also had most of his
training in a sim. If passengers were told that their pilot had never
before flown the aircraft that they were in, they might get pretty
nervous, and yet that happens all the time these days.

Huh?



Anyway... you're severly damaged in the head, this is my last attempt
to try to reason with you and present you with reality, you lack the
necessary coding in your head to do anything or be anyone in your life.

Dudley Henriques wrote:

"Blanche" wrote in message
Bob Moore wrote:
wrote
You know I really hate the fact that all you do is claim that
simulators are just as good as real flight or better, their
not even close. And I'll give you a few reasons why real
flight is different.

AviatorHI...dispite all of your claimed flight experience, you
don't seem to understand just what constitutes a flight
"simulator" by FAA definition.

MSFS is NOT a flight simulator....it is a PC program. I spent
6-7 years of my 24 year airline career teaching and checking in
"real" simulators, and I can tell you that most of what you
posted is just not true.

Thank you Bob. That's 2 of us explaining the difference between
a game and a real flight simulator.



Actually, three :-)

Dudley Henriques

One more, and we can play a decent game of Bridge!

Mxsmanic wrote:
Blanche writes:

Thank you Bob. That's 2 of us explaining the difference between
a game and a real flight simulator.

No, that's the FAA's definition of a flight simulator, which is not
definitive.

And pray tell, which organization would you accept as the definitive?

Remember, if your attention span lasts more than 90 seconds, that I
cited FAA and CAA, and Bob provided the text of the FAA definition.

In the US, that's all that's necessary for the court system. And that
is "definitive".

"Blanche" wrote in message
...


Actually, three :-)

Dudley Henriques

One more, and we can play a decent game of Bridge!

You can do it now, Blanche, except in this case the dummy is a permanent
fixture. Not sure how you'd do with that.

"Blanche" wrote in message
...
Dudley Henriques wrote:

One more, and we can play a decent game of Bridge!

To tell you the truth Blanche, I don't think I'll live long enough to where
I can play a decent game of bridge.
:-)))
Dudley

In article L1kdh.5396$sM2.4463@trndny05,
"Steve Foley" wrote:

OK. I call for a vote.

Are sensations a HUGE part of flying:

Gig 601XL - yes
Steve Foley - yes
Anthony - no

anyone else?

define "huge"? :-)

(btw - I'd probably vote yes)

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate