an exercise for sim pilots -- a 1 G roll

"Tony" wrote in message
ups.com...

There is no requirement to hold a constant level of acceleration or
level flight. The requirement is simply that the weight vector be into
the seat at 1 G. It is possible to take the airplane through a 360 roll
about its axis doing this, so such a flight pattern would NOT be
noticed by a blindfolded with hearing blocked PX. I do appreciate the
airplane will not end the manouver straight and level and will not have
its initial heading. Recovering those values may be physically
impossible -- it will be going down pretty fast, and I can't imagine a
flight path that take the airplane back to S&L without inducing more
than 1 G on the cockpit. The question I have is, does an airplane exist
that has the control authority to fly such a roll?


IF you allow me to start with the aircraft in a 20 degree climb, it is
possible, and I do it quite frequently in the RV-6. Without letting me
start in a climb or end in a dive, it isn't possible, because keeping one
"G" on the seat when you're inverted means the airplane is accelerating
downward at 2 G's - the gravity induced one and the one you're using to keep
your butt in the seat. You've gotta make up for that downward acceleration
somewhere, and the easy way is to start in a climb or end in a dive...

I routinely do 1.25 G rolls, including the pull-up before the roll and the
pull-up after the roll, which are what add the extra .25 G. Alternately, I
can skip either of the pull-ups, but that means I need to pull twice as hard
(or twice as long) on the other end of the roll.

KB

KB

john smith writes:

Water, not fruit juice.

It looked yellow, as I recall.

Think.... why would someone deliberately pour a stickey substance onto
their instument panel/engine control cluster if there was risk of
spilling it into said instruments/controls?

Perhaps there was no risk.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

The notion of starting in a climb solves a lot of problems, I had not
thought of that,

And if you start S&L and fast, you can enter the climb while in a
controlled deceleration, too, keeping that 1 G component down relative
to the seat, too.

How fast do you have to enter, and how long does the roll take?

Thanks!



On Jan 2, 8:10 pm, "Kyle Boatright" wrote:
"Tony" wrote in oglegroups.com...



There is no requirement to hold a constant level of acceleration or
level flight. The requirement is simply that the weight vector be into
the seat at 1 G. It is possible to take the airplane through a 360 roll
about its axis doing this, so such a flight pattern would NOT be
noticed by a blindfolded with hearing blocked PX. I do appreciate the
airplane will not end the manouver straight and level and will not have
its initial heading. Recovering those values may be physically
impossible -- it will be going down pretty fast, and I can't imagine a
flight path that take the airplane back to S&L without inducing more
than 1 G on the cockpit. The question I have is, does an airplane exist
that has the control authority to fly such a roll?IF you allow me to start with the aircraft in a 20 degree climb, it is
possible, and I do it quite frequently in the RV-6. Without letting me
start in a climb or end in a dive, it isn't possible, because keeping one
"G" on the seat when you're inverted means the airplane is accelerating
downward at 2 G's - the gravity induced one and the one you're using to keep
your butt in the seat. You've gotta make up for that downward acceleration
somewhere, and the easy way is to start in a climb or end in a dive...

I routinely do 1.25 G rolls, including the pull-up before the roll and the
pull-up after the roll, which are what add the extra .25 G. Alternately, I
can skip either of the pull-ups, but that means I need to pull twice as hard
(or twice as long) on the other end of the roll.

KB

KB

"Tony" wrote in message
ups.com...
About a year ago there was a spirited discussion about maintaining a 1
G 'straight into the seat' force while doing a roll (let's define a
roll as rotating the airplane, somehow, 360 degrees around its axis
with respect to the horizon). As I rmember the analysis, if you have
enough control authority if you accelerate downward at 1 G and pull
hard enough while doing a coordinated roll you can do just that. A
blindfolded passenger would know the roll happened.

Are there any skilled sim players out there who can do this? I'm
especially interested in what airplanes have enough (simulated) control
authority to pull it off.


It's not possible with my current setup. Maybe someone else will have better
luck.

In article ,
says...
birdog writes:

I take it you are talking about a barrel roll. With the real thing, you feel
the roll in the seat of your pants. With the sim, I guess you'd have to do
it with instruments - i.e., coordinate with the ball, and a g-meter. Since
you can't feel it, I don't see how else you would know if you did it right.
Doesn't sound like much fun.

I've done it successfully as an experiment, out of curiosity, but you
are right, it's not much fun. It has the merit of being a very safe
maneuver.

Breaking both wings off in the simulator is also a very safe maneuver
isn't it?

-- Duncan

"Tony" wrote in message
oups.com...
The notion of starting in a climb solves a lot of problems, I had not
thought of that,

And if you start S&L and fast, you can enter the climb while in a
controlled deceleration, too, keeping that 1 G component down relative
to the seat, too.

How fast do you have to enter, and how long does the roll take?

Thanks!


Anywhere from 100 to 170 knots. The roll probably takes 4-5 seconds, but I
don't have the skill level to perform a roll and time it simultaneously.

KB

"john smith" wrote in message
...


Mxsmanic wrote:

I've seen Bob Hoover demonstrate this by pouring fruit juice into a
cup during a barrel roll. Others have probably done the same thing.


Water, not fruit juice.

Think.... why would someone deliberately pour a stickey substance onto
their instument panel/engine control cluster if there was risk of
spilling it into said instruments/controls?

It was iced tea.

BTW, Avflash recently provided a link to a YouTube video of it:
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#194120

Kyle, if the roll is completed in 4 seconds, that means the airplane
will be 'falling' about 75 knots after 360 degrees. Doesn't that mean
if you start the roll with a vertical velocity of 75 kts you'll come
out with a zero vertical speed component? With a 150 kt airspeed, that
means starting the roll with a 30 degree climb.

Interesting idea!

Thanks



On Jan 2, 10:21 pm, "Kyle Boatright" wrote:
"Tony" wrote in ooglegroups.com...

The notion of starting in a climb solves a lot of problems, I had not
thought of that,

And if you start S&L and fast, you can enter the climb while in a
controlled deceleration, too, keeping that 1 G component down relative
to the seat, too.

How fast do you have to enter, and how long does the roll take?

Thanks!Anywhere from 100 to 170 knots. The roll probably takes 4-5 seconds, but I
don't have the skill level to perform a roll and time it simultaneously.

KB

Duncan writes:

Breaking both wings off in the simulator is also a very safe maneuver
isn't it?

No, it causes the aircraft to crash.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

In article ,
says...
Duncan writes:

Breaking both wings off in the simulator is also a very safe maneuver
isn't it?

No, it causes the aircraft to crash.

Any injuries?

How much did it cost for the new plane?

--
Duncan