Spooky flights

On Feb 3, 10:45 am, "Tony" wrote:
You have thoughtful and valid observations. Yet, I suspect, you'd
agree in spite of these issues and other problems we still live in a
great country. Some of us could live nearly anywhere we'd like, but
there just hasn't been much migration from the United States.

I do know a fair number of well educated foreign nationals living and
working here (legally), but very few of my friends have gone abroad
for a serious length of time to advance their careers. It may be my
sampling is biased, I've been privileged to live near well known
universities most of my adult life.


In the past 20 years, I've been fortunate enough to have traveled
fairly extensively. I believe I live in one of the most beautiful
cities in the greatest country in the world. But the fact that it's
not as bad as other places doesn't mean I'm willing to let it get
worse.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Jay Honeck writes:


You're the one who challenged the facts.


There are no "facts" at issue here.

Nice back pedal when called out.





No one was "crowing" about freedom until you denied its existence
in the United States.


Americans constantly brag about "freedom."


Maybe, but they weren't here when you brought it up. You just spouted
off as usual trying to bait someone into an answer. As usual you were
wrong.


Freedom this, Freedom
that; they love to use the word. Indeed, they talk about it a lot
more than they practice it.

We all practice it everyday by going about our business.





How many TFRs have you flown into?

None.



Have you ever had all your
property seized because someone hinted that you might be doing
something illegal (even if you weren't)?


No.





Has the Secret Service ever
thrown you out of your house or office for Presidential events?


No. And he's been here four times since I've lived here.




There are a lot of bad things that can happen,



So now you state the obvious. That's called life.




and a lot of freedoms
that no longer exist.


Wrong again.



Just because you haven't experienced these bad
things and haven't missed the freedoms that you've lost doesn't make
it okay.

Haven't missed any because I haven't lost any.




Right now my plane is sitting in its hangar, ten minutes from here,
fully fueled and ready to go. If I wished, I could go fly it to
California right now -- a distance of 1350 nautical miles -- without
saying a word to anyone, or asking permission of *any* governmental
body.


Unless you find a TFR surrounding your airport, in which case you
can't go anywhere.

We've always had TFR's. And, like before, if the President shows up to
create an airspace shutdown it is posted in advance. ATC will allow
aircraft to come and go.




Unless you say something that sounds threatening, in which case you
can end up in a Federal prison.


Nonsense.


And if some of these officials don't
like you, they can have you thrown in jail for no particular reason at
all.


Real nonsense.

Jim M wrote:




The ADIZ alone affects 10,000 pilots. You don't represent 99.9% of
the rest of the country.


Alright, according to Wikipedia there are 609,000 active pilots. You do
the math.



You live and fly in the middle of nowhere.
Good for you, but most people don't. Most pilots in this country live
near cities, and that means NFL TFRs, MLB TFRs, NASCAR TFRs, NCAA
TFRs,


3 mile radius for a few hours at a time. Big deal. I live in fire
country. We have more TFR's for that than all the rest of the TFR's put
together and the sizes and the shapes vary.






And the worst thing is that since 9-11, the ideas of due process and
presumed innocence are gone, as are any consideration of
circumstances. Accused drug dealers get more breaks than pilots in
these airspace violation hearings.


Those are criminal proceedings, pilot errors are administrative. Always
have been. Nothing changed there.

On Feb 3, 12:21 pm, Newps wrote:
Alright, according to Wikipedia there are 609,000 active pilots. You do
the math.

I did. 99.9% of all pilots don't live in Iowa City.

3 mile radius for a few hours at a time. Big deal. I live in fire
country. We have more TFR's for that than all the rest of the TFR's put
together and the sizes and the shapes vary.

Firefighting TFR vs. national security TFR. No comparison. Fire TFRs
are hardly *ever* in the midst of complicated airspace, are so low
you'd have to crash into one to find it, and are trivial to navigate
around. All the ones I named are in and around B & C airspace, and
the consequences of violating them are egregious. There are no more
or less fire TFRs after 9-11. There are one hell of a lot more
"national security" TFRs after.


Those are criminal proceedings, pilot errors are administrative. Always
have been.

The distinction is hardly important when you're being led away from
the airport in handcuffs. How many times did you see that before
9-11? How many times were you randomly searched at an airport before
9-11? How many pilots were suspended in 2000? How 'bout 2005?
Compare the average suspension times before and after 9-11. AOPA did,
and it's drastically different. In 2000, NORAD scrambled fighters for
intercepts within U.S. borders a grand total of 0 times. In the 4
years following 9-11, they scrambled 1,600 times to intercept flights
within U.S. borders. Not one of the intercepted aircraft was a
terrorist, BTW.

Nothing changed there.

Oh good grief. Wake the hell up. Do you really believe that, or are
you just making sport of disagreeing with that mx guy?

Jim M wrote:
On Feb 3, 12:21 pm, Newps wrote:

Alright, according to Wikipedia there are 609,000 active pilots. You do
the math.


I did. 99.9% of all pilots don't live in Iowa City.

The point is hardly are affected by the TFR.






Firefighting TFR vs. national security TFR. No comparison. Fire TFRs
are hardly *ever* in the midst of complicated airspace,


Huh? Any idea where Denver, Salt Lake and Boise are?




are so low
you'd have to crash into one to find it,


They go into the tens of thousands of feet.



and are trivial to navigate
around.




Most are 5 mile radius because the fire is small. Many get to hundreds
of square miles.

On Feb 3, 4:59 pm, Newps wrote:


The point is hardly are affected by the TFR.

There isn't "the" TFR. There are hundreds of new ones, and thousands
of pilots have been affected by them.

Huh? Any idea where Denver, Salt Lake and Boise are?

I'll repeat it for you: Fire TFRs are hardly *ever* in the midst of
complicated airspace, Exceptions don't prove the rule.

They go into the tens of thousands of feet.
Most are 5 mile radius because the fire is small. Many get to hundreds
of square miles.

Again, these are exceptions, and are no different now than they were
pre 9-11. What's your point? That there are lots of fire TFRs?
There are lots of clouds, too. What has either to do with the
thousands of security TFR violations that have happened since 9-11?

Again, are you seriously positing that we have as much freedom today
as we had on 9-10-01? I guess all those people at the AOPA annual
meetings are all worked up for nothing?

Again, are you seriously positing that we have as much freedom today
as we had on 9-10-01? I guess all those people at the AOPA annual
meetings are all worked up for nothing?

All those people are worked up because Frederick, MD -- AOPA's home
base -- is right outside the ADIZ.

If AOPA was based in, say, Sacramento, or Des Moines, the Washington
ADIZ would not be nearly as big a deal for them.

Not that I'm saying it shouldn't be a concern for them, BTW.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck writes:

All those people are worked up because Frederick, MD -- AOPA's home
base -- is right outside the ADIZ.

If AOPA was based in, say, Sacramento, or Des Moines, the Washington
ADIZ would not be nearly as big a deal for them.

I don't think that would make any difference at all. A lot of
influential pilots live in or near the nation's capital, after all.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

I don't think that would make any difference at all. A lot of
influential pilots live in or near the nation's capital, after all.

Apparently not enough of them to make any difference.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck writes:

Apparently not enough of them to make any difference.

The main person responsible for it all is among them, and he's in the
White House.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.