GPS instead of turn and bank

I am thinking about buying a 1946 Taylorcraft that has NO gyros at all on
the panel. I really want at least a turn and bank so I want die if I loose
reference to the horizon for any reason. I have been told that the heading
information from a GPS is good enough to do the function of a turn and bank
and allow emergency operations without having a visual horizon reference.
Is this correct?

Danny Deger

How are you going to determine bank with a GPS?

On Feb 4, 5:24 pm, "Danny Deger" wrote:
I am thinking about buying a 1946 Taylorcraft that has NO gyros at all on
the panel. I really want at least a turn and bank so I want die if I loose
reference to the horizon for any reason. I have been told that the heading
information from a GPS is good enough to do the function of a turn and bank
and allow emergency operations without having a visual horizon reference.
Is this correct?

Danny Deger

Recently, Danny Deger posted:

I am thinking about buying a 1946 Taylorcraft that has NO gyros at
all on the panel. I really want at least a turn and bank so I want
die if I loose reference to the horizon for any reason. I have been
told that the heading information from a GPS is good enough to do the
function of a turn and bank and allow emergency operations without
having a visual horizon reference. Is this correct?

Aviation-oriented GPS units with moving map displays often have an HSI
mode, so you may be able to eventually detect turn, but not bank. I would
think it unwise to rely on that for orientation.

Neil

Danny Deger writes:

I am thinking about buying a 1946 Taylorcraft that has NO gyros at all on
the panel. I really want at least a turn and bank so I want die if I loose
reference to the horizon for any reason. I have been told that the heading
information from a GPS is good enough to do the function of a turn and bank
and allow emergency operations without having a visual horizon reference.
Is this correct?

A GPS can only determine your track over the ground, which may not be
your heading. If there is no wind, both are the same, but if there is
any wind, your heading could be significantly different from your
ground track.

GPS cannot determine your bank angle. In theory a GPS could determine
if you appear to be making a standard turn, if there is no wind. I
don't know of any actual GPS units that do this (?), and it becomes
complicated if there is any wind.

Remember, GPS units can only determine your location in space
(longitude and latitude and, with somewhat less precision, altitude).
Apart from that basic information, all other information they provide
is derived from observing the changes in your location over time.
They cannot provide any information that cannot be calculated from
this data. They do not know the actual attitude or heading of the
aircraft: a 45-degree bank and a 30-degree downward pitch angle look
exactly the same as level flight to a GPS.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Maybe, but you'd be better off with both.

But why would you loose reference to the horizon? Even a
T-Craft can flay away from clouds faster than the wind
blows.


"Danny Deger" wrote in message
...
|I am thinking about buying a 1946 Taylorcraft that has NO
gyros at all on
| the panel. I really want at least a turn and bank so I
want die if I loose
| reference to the horizon for any reason. I have been told
that the heading
| information from a GPS is good enough to do the function
of a turn and bank
| and allow emergency operations without having a visual
horizon reference.
| Is this correct?
|
| Danny Deger
|
|

Tony wrote:
How are you going to determine bank with a GPS?

Indirectly. The same way you do with a needle-ball gauge.
If you ain't turning, you ain't banked. It's actually
a whole lot easier to track straight ahead with my GNS480
than with the turn coordinator when flying partial panel.

Mxsmanic wrote:

A GPS can only determine your track over the ground, which may not be
your heading.

This is the only thing that you said in your three whole stupid
ass paragraphs that was correct or the least bit relevent.

Unless you actually learn something about flying IFR in reality
rather than ****ing your life away in front of flight simulator
you'll never have an understanding of flight.

By the way, if you got your lard ass out of your chair and got
some excercise, you wouldn't overgross the training ships you
might be able to fly.

I am thinking about buying a 1946 Taylorcraft that has NO gyros at all on
the panel. I really want at least a turn and bank so I want die if I loose
reference to the horizon for any reason. I have been told that the heading
information from a GPS is good enough to do the function of a turn and bank
and allow emergency operations without having a visual horizon reference.
Is this correct?

You can obtain the BEST answer to yoyur question by going up and
trying it out.

I've shot three or four simulated "ILS" approaches under the hood,
using only a Garmin 396 plus the aircraft's airspeed and altitude
indicators. The 396 has an imitation turn coordinator that is jerky
and has a delay but it works well enough to keep you right-side up and
get you to the airport.

I have NOT tried using it to recover from unexpected "unusual
attitudes," which is another matter.

vince norris

"Tony" wrote in message
ps.com...
How are you going to determine bank with a GPS?

On Feb 4, 5:24 pm, "Danny Deger" wrote:
I am thinking about buying a 1946 Taylorcraft that has NO gyros at all on
the panel. I really want at least a turn and bank so I want die if I
loose
reference to the horizon for any reason. I have been told that the
heading
information from a GPS is good enough to do the function of a turn and
bank
and allow emergency operations without having a visual horizon reference.
Is this correct?

Danny Deger


Actually there are specialized GPS units that can determine attitude and
they have been around for at least 10-12 years. Google the "Trimble TANS
Vector" and you will see one of the earlier units.
http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsw...20997-00-C.pdf
They operate by using at least 3 antennae (usually four antennae) and
directly determine roll, pitch and yaw using carrier phase differences from
the GPS satellites. Of course this is not the way the portable units derive
the HSI info.

The carrier phase units are commonly used as either primary or secondary
IMUs (with some other 3 axis gyro like a laser gyro) in high-end UAVs or
other military type hardware.

Regards,
John Severyn

"Danny Deger" wrote in message
...
I am thinking about buying a 1946 Taylorcraft that has NO gyros at all on
the panel. I really want at least a turn and bank so I want die if I loose
reference to the horizon for any reason. I have been told that the heading
information from a GPS is good enough to do the function of a turn and bank
and allow emergency operations without having a visual horizon reference.
Is this correct?

Danny Deger

The problem is that your GPS can't tell you how much to correct to bring the
ship back to wings level. Also, GPS refresh rates and software may not work
fast enough to give you an idea of what your turn rate is *right now*. Not
that the GPS idea couldn't work, but I don't see it as a reliable method,
which is what you want when your life is on the line.

KB