A real life pilot's first sim experience

writes:

Yes, I use MSFS as an occasional substitute for my Cherokee 180 when I
can't fly for real. I use the default Cessna 172, it's not bad,
except that no matter how I adjust the sensitivity settings, the
rudder is WAY too sensitive compared to my Cherokee or 172s that I've
flown. Is there anything else to try?

There is at least one freeware add-on for FS 2004 that simulates a Cherokee
180F, and at least one payware add-on (Carenado). I don't know much about
them, but you might want to try them if they match your real-life aircraft.
The closer the simulation gets to your real-life experience, the more
enjoyable it is likely to be.

--
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Kev writes:

Yuck. Using a flight (or driving or whatever) sim with a keyboard is
like, well, using a GUI without any kind of mouse device. Doable, but
boring. A real-life pilot simply should not use or judge a flight
sim without a yoke and pedals.

A keyboard will work if you're mainly interested in instrument flight with
automation and large aircraft. I flew like that for years, but it's true that
I avoided anything that required a lot of manipulation of the controls because
it was so awkward with the keyboard.

Flying with a mouse is much easier, even though it is very different from
flying with normal aircraft controls. However, the mouse couldn't be used on
this way in some versions of MSFS (I understand it's back in FSX).

--
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On Mar 1, 3:25 pm, "Kev" wrote:
A real-life pilot simply should not use or judge a flight
sim without a yoke and pedals.

REAL pilots use a stick ;-)

Thanks to both you and CrashLander for the help. I found the RealAir
172 web site and will give it a try. Can you say where I can find the
freeware Cherokee 180F? (Mine's a 180B, so the instrument panel will
be very different, but that's ok)

Mxsmanic wrote:
The closer the simulation gets to your real-life experience, the more
enjoyable it is likely to be.

I think it's plenty enjoyable now. It's different in some ways from
the real thing, e.g., physical sensations, crazy rudder, the
motivation to look out the window, etc., but I think it's a remarkable
product for the cost, and much much better than not flying at all.

My complaint about the rudder sensitivity may not by accurate. I
think it is a combination of the MSFS aero model and my hardware
controller. There is no feedback in my controller (I use a joystick,
I think it's called MS Sidewinder (?)). For instance, my real
Cherokee requires a substantial push on the right rudder pedal during
the takeoff roll to keep the plane straight, while the sim/joystick
requires only a VERY slight twisting pressure. If I'm not very
careful, I overcontrol and shoot off the right side of the runway,
unless I overcontrol back to the left, and then I shoot off the left
side of the runway. It's much easier in the Cherokee, even in a
strong crosswind.

writes:

My complaint about the rudder sensitivity may not by accurate. I
think it is a combination of the MSFS aero model and my hardware
controller.

I assume you've turned "autocoordination" of the rudder off in the realism
settings?

For instance, my real
Cherokee requires a substantial push on the right rudder pedal during
the takeoff roll to keep the plane straight, while the sim/joystick
requires only a VERY slight twisting pressure.

Set the P-force and torque higher in the realism settings. Most pilots say
that MSFS actually exaggerates these effects, so if you set the sliders high
enough, these effects should be at least as strong as they are in real life.
If you set them to zero, they will disappear.

--
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On Feb 28, 11:22 pm, "James Sleeman" wrote:
On Mar 1, 3:25 pm, "Kev" wrote:

A real-life pilot simply should not use or judge a flight
sim without a yoke and pedals.

REAL pilots use a stick ;-)

Touché !!

Kev :-)

"Tony" wrote in message
oups.com...
snip


For those of you who get pleasure from the MSFS, more power to you. It
did not work for me. There is a possiblity my mind has been poisoned
to the sim experience, but probably not, I hoped it might be fun ro do
on late nights. Oh well, it was a $20 experiment. The good news is,
that was cheap. Most of my 'experiments' cost a lot more than that.
Want to know how to burn some VC's couple million in a startup
venture? Talk to me!


This is what I think of PC simulators also.

Danny Deger

This is what I think of PC simulators also.

Tony and Danny, you guys got it wrong. Way wrong.

You can't fly a flight sim program with a KEYBOARD. Try to drive your
car by pushing arrows on a keyboard, and let's see how far you get.
You'll be wrapped around a tree in a few blocks.

You can't expect realism from a sim without real flight controls.
With a real yoke/throttle/prop/mixture, and rudder pedals (with
brakes), trust me, you'll find it real enough.

And, as others have pointed out, you also have to set the realism
levels up. Out of the box, MSFS is designed for 12-year-olds who have
no clue what they're doing. Slide the realism controls all the way to
the right, and I guarantee that you will NOT track straight down the
runway on take-off!

See our set-up he
http://alexisparkinn.com/flight_simulator.htm

I'll let you fly it all day. I'll set you up in your Mooney, in any
weather, day or night, at any airport. You'll go away with a
different attitude toward Microsoft Flight Simulator, guaranteed.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Mar 2, 6:29 am, "Jay Honeck" wrote:
This is what I think of PC simulators also.

Tony and Danny, you guys got it wrong. Way wrong.

You can't fly a flight sim program with a KEYBOARD. Try to drive your
car by pushing arrows on a keyboard, and let's see how far you get.
You'll be wrapped around a tree in a few blocks.

You can't expect realism from a sim without real flight controls.
With a real yoke/throttle/prop/mixture, and rudder pedals (with
brakes), trust me, you'll find it real enough.

And, as others have pointed out, you also have to set the realism
levels up. Out of the box, MSFS is designed for 12-year-olds who have
no clue what they're doing. Slide the realism controls all the way to
the right, and I guarantee that you will NOT track straight down the
runway on take-off!

See our set-up hehttp://alexisparkinn.com/flight_simulator.htm

I'll let you fly it all day. I'll set you up in your Mooney, in any
weather, day or night, at any airport. You'll go away with a
different attitude toward Microsoft Flight Simulator, guaranteed.

Thats the secret Jay.
To have the sim set up by a real pilot who is type rated for the
particular aircraft.
I found MFS (1990) to be nothing like flying a real aircraft..

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
This is what I think of PC simulators also.

Tony and Danny, you guys got it wrong. Way wrong.

You can't fly a flight sim program with a KEYBOARD. Try to drive your
car by pushing arrows on a keyboard, and let's see how far you get.
You'll be wrapped around a tree in a few blocks.

You can't expect realism from a sim without real flight controls.
With a real yoke/throttle/prop/mixture, and rudder pedals (with
brakes), trust me, you'll find it real enough.

Actually I used a control stick.

I also was an Air Force pilot and NASA astronaut instructor. In both of
these jobs I got lots of time in full blown simulators complete with motion.
I found them to be boring compaired to real flight. I don't think the
Microsoft simulator has a chance of becoming interesting to me.

Danny Deger