Oral exam place and questions

I've been reading about oral exams for a private pilot license (in the U.S.),
and two questions have come to mind.

Where does this exam take place? Is it in a classroom, or in a testing
center, or is it actually in the aircraft?

When you are asked math-type questions, are you expected to answer with just a
ballpark figure or an exact answer? In the latter case, can you use a
calculator, or pencil and paper, or must you do it in your head?

If I'm asked how long it will take to go 84 nm at 120 kts, I know that it's
about 40 minutes, but if an exact answer is required I don't see how I could
practically provide that without a calculator.

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Mxsmanic wrote:

Where does this exam take place? Is it in a classroom, or in a testing
center, or is it actually in the aircraft?

It's usually done at the point of the checkride, inside the FBO in some
convenient place where you go over the paperwork and then outside in the
vicinity of the aircraft, typically the candidate being asked questions
while demonstrating the checkride.

When you are asked math-type questions, are you expected to answer with just a
ballpark figure or an exact answer? In the latter case, can you use a
calculator, or pencil and paper, or must you do it in your head?

You're not typically asked math-type questions. Generally questions are
asked about aircraft systems and your preflight planning is examined.
In flight, you might be asked to compute some things as part of your
normal cross country navigation. Accuracy to what you can get on the
whizwheel is accceptable.

If I'm asked how long it will take to go 84 nm at 120 kts, I know that it's
about 40 minutes, but if an exact answer is required I don't see how I could
practically provide that without a calculator.

Whizwheels were the classic, calculators are acceptable.

Ron Natalie writes:

Whizwheels were the classic, calculators are acceptable.

A whizwheel being like the small E6-B I got at the pilot store? I still
haven't studied it very much, although I used to be very good with a slide
rule.

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On Apr 9, 7:36 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
I've been reading about oral exams for a private pilot license (in the U.S.),
and two questions have come to mind.

Where does this exam take place? Is it in a classroom, or in a testing
center, or is it actually in the aircraft?

When you are asked math-type questions, are you expected to answer with just a
ballpark figure or an exact answer? In the latter case, can you use a
calculator, or pencil and paper, or must you do it in your head?

If I'm asked how long it will take to go 84 nm at 120 kts, I know that it's
about 40 minutes, but if an exact answer is required I don't see how I could
practically provide that without a calculator.

--
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It is actually done at a place of the examiner (and usually the
examinee) mutually agreed upon location..

Just speaking for myself...when I do non airline exams I like to have
a quiet place, if possible with a big picture of the panel (if not the
airplane manual with a sample picture) and access to some wx
information...if not I carry my own and give it to the candidate as a
part of a X country planning excersize.

In your hypothetical if I gave you a question like the one you possed
and you gave me the "ball park" answer my next question "might" be,
"if you wanted a more precise one how would you figure it out?" and
then that would go to the "computing" device...I would probably feel
it necessary (grin) to show you how to use an E6B if all you have is
an electronic one (kind of a whiz bang thing)...

I"ve done "part" of the oral in and around an airplane before...but I
dont like to. The environment is not controlled etc... It usually
doesnt do what I am trying to do and that is put the applicant at
"ease"...

Robert

Luke Skywalker writes:

In your hypothetical if I gave you a question like the one you possed
and you gave me the "ball park" answer my next question "might" be,
"if you wanted a more precise one how would you figure it out?" and
then that would go to the "computing" device...I would probably feel
it necessary (grin) to show you how to use an E6B if all you have is
an electronic one (kind of a whiz bang thing)...

I don't think that would be a problem. The ASA E6-B I bought is inexpensively
made, though, and it's really hard to turn the wheels; it would be a pain to
actually have to fumble with it in a cockpit.

A nice Pickett steel or bamboo circular slide rule would be ideal--one of the
rare situations in which a slide rule is probably superior to a calculator (no
electricity, extremely fast and easy to use, more than accurate enough for its
purpose, good at simplifying specific problems). Alas! Nobody seems to make
slide rules any more. I saw a few other circular slide rules at the pilot
store, but they all looked like the same thing in different materials,
although I didn't look that closely.

I"ve done "part" of the oral in and around an airplane before...but I
dont like to. The environment is not controlled etc... It usually
doesnt do what I am trying to do and that is put the applicant at
"ease"...

The only time I'm at ease during an exam is if I don't care if I pass.

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Mxsmanic wrote:

Ron Natalie writes:

Whizwheels were the classic, calculators are acceptable.

A whizwheel being like the small E6-B I got at the pilot store?

that's the one. Though whizwheel is a more generic term for
circular slide rules and can also refer to different variants
like the Jeppesen CR-5 (the main difference is how the wind
triangle is computed on the backside)

--Sylvain

Mxsmanic wrote:
Where does this exam take place?

My exam took place in the flight school building, in one of the
ready-room alcoves. We also took a brief walk outside, and spent some
time with the aircraft before preflight.

When you are asked math-type questions, are you expected to answer with just a
ballpark figure or an exact answer? In the latter case, can you use a
calculator, or pencil and paper, or must you do it in your head?

Precise. And yes, calculators are allowed, but you must demonstrate your
ability using any method. Generally, though, math questions aren't
asked; it's a lot more theory, rules, specifications, that sort of
thing. The "math" portions are taken care of in the flight plan you're
asked to develop.

If I'm asked how long it will take to go 84 nm at 120 kts, I know that it's
about 40 minutes, but if an exact answer is required I don't see how I could
practically provide that without a calculator.

I could be quite cruel here, seeing as you're just a name on the screen.
However, I will be benevolent.

Long division is your answer. Alternately, it pays to invest in a book
on pilot math.

120 kts is 2 nm/min (120/60), so the precise answer is 42 minutes
(84/2). Decimal minutes are also acceptable in remainders (assuming you
can deal with converting them back to HMS format, to read on clocks).

TheSmokingGnu

Edit: crossposted, corrected.

On Apr 9, 8:52 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Luke Skywalker writes:
In your hypothetical if I gave you a question like the one you possed
and you gave me the "ball park" answer my next question "might" be,
"if you wanted a more precise one how would you figure it out?" and
then that would go to the "computing" device...I would probably feel
it necessary (grin) to show you how to use an E6B if all you have is
an electronic one (kind of a whiz bang thing)...

I don't think that would be a problem. The ASA E6-B I bought is inexpensively
made, though, and it's really hard to turn the wheels; it would be a pain to
actually have to fumble with it in a cockpit.

A nice Pickett steel or bamboo circular slide rule would be ideal--one of the
rare situations in which a slide rule is probably superior to a calculator (no
electricity, extremely fast and easy to use, more than accurate enough for its
purpose, good at simplifying specific problems). Alas! Nobody seems to make
slide rules any more. I saw a few other circular slide rules at the pilot
store, but they all looked like the same thing in different materials,
although I didn't look that closely.

I"ve done "part" of the oral in and around an airplane before...but I
dont like to. The environment is not controlled etc... It usually
doesnt do what I am trying to do and that is put the applicant at
"ease"...

The only time I'm at ease during an exam is if I don't care if I pass.

--
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heh...

I would share three things with you.

First if your instructor sends you then most examiners assume that you
are going to pass...you might not buy this but your instructor has as
much on the line as 'you' do in an exam and few just toss a hail mary
pass...

Second what most examiners are looking for (there are some turds but
most are not) is competence and a good grasp of the subject. AS I
tell people "the only one who gives a perfect checkride is me" (humor
is good) and I am not looking for perfection but competence...I dont
want to see to many mistakes but I certianly woudl rather see someone
who made a mistake or answered something wrong and recognized it do a
bit of self correcting...then simply "hope" I didnt catch it or dont
care.

Third part of that look for competence is that the student "believes"
that they are competent and acts that way. I understand what you mean
by "at ease" so dont take this wrong...but my guard gets up if I see
someone who is not so confident in their ability to pass...There is an
old saying "people who think that they are going to fail usually
do"...

If your instructor sends you then sit back, do your best, learn from
it and you will be proud of the result. Dont think that the task is
all that difficult...I made it!

Robert

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:

snip

A nice Pickett steel or bamboo circular slide rule would be ideal--one of the
rare situations in which a slide rule is probably superior to a calculator (no
electricity, extremely fast and easy to use, more than accurate enough for its
purpose, good at simplifying specific problems). Alas! Nobody seems to make
slide rules any more. I saw a few other circular slide rules at the pilot
store, but they all looked like the same thing in different materials,
although I didn't look that closely.

An E6 is nothing more than a specialized circular slide rule.

Back before calculators, when slide rules were common, there were
specialized slide rules for all sorts of things.


--
Jim Pennino

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TheSmokingGnu writes:

120 kts is 2 nm/min (120/60), so the precise answer is 42 minutes
(84/2).

I had not thought of that, although I suppose I would with some reflection.
I'm sure I would not during an exam.

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