What's a "Cloverleaf" Maneuver?

In a description of an alledged fight between American
pilot named Lawrence in a P-38 versus Adolf Galland in
a Ta-152 (or was that an FW 190D??), Lawrence mentions
a "cloverleaf" maneuver that apparently positioned him
well against Galland.

From the context of the story, I gather it was something
a P-38 was especially good at because of it's twin engine
control. Galland was apparently surprised by the maneuver.

Anyone know what this maneuver actually was, and if a P-38
was especially good at it?

CC, I think the story came from you! Care to comment?

Don't know why it's taken me so long to ask, but I just
gotta know now!


SMH

A snip from

http://yarchive.net/mil/p38.html

"Although the Spitfire could execute a tighter turning
circle than the P-38, Lowell was able to use the P-38's excellent stall
characteristics to repeatedly pull inside the Spit's turn radius and ride
the stall, then back off outside the Spit's turn, pick up speed and cut
back in again in what he called a "cloverleaf" maneuver."

This is not your 'traditional' description of a cloverleaf as taught in
pilot training. That is a climb (with decreasing airspeed) followed with
bank angle slowly increasing so that the nose will fall thru the horizon
while inverted. From there you perform (more or less) a split S. You
should now be heading 90 deg to your original heading. Then repeat. You
can do four of these in a row and ta da you get your cloverleaf!!!!

But I don't think that's what he's talking about here...

The Lowell description is more akin to flying in "lag" to pick up airspeed
then pulling your nose to "lead" (with resulting loss of energy aka
airspeed/altitude). I guess after doing a couple of these, you could
picture a cloverleaf if looking down from above the turn

Mark

"Stephen Harding" wrote in message
...
In a description of an alledged fight between American
pilot named Lawrence in a P-38 versus Adolf Galland in
a Ta-152 (or was that an FW 190D??), Lawrence mentions
a "cloverleaf" maneuver that apparently positioned him
well against Galland.

From the context of the story, I gather it was something
a P-38 was especially good at because of it's twin engine
control. Galland was apparently surprised by the maneuver.

Anyone know what this maneuver actually was, and if a P-38
was especially good at it?

CC, I think the story came from you! Care to comment?

Don't know why it's taken me so long to ask, but I just
gotta know now!


SMH

Stephen Harding wrote:

In a description of an alledged fight between American
pilot named Lawrence in a P-38 versus Adolf Galland in
a Ta-152 (or was that an FW 190D??), Lawrence mentions
a "cloverleaf" maneuver that apparently positioned him
well against Galland.

From the context of the story, I gather it was something
a P-38 was especially good at because of it's twin engine
control. Galland was apparently surprised by the maneuver.

Anyone know what this maneuver actually was, and if a P-38
was especially good at it?

A cloverlead is a basic aerobatic maneuver consisting of a pull up
with a roll 90 degrees so as to place the aircraft 90 degrees of turn
away from the original heading as it passes through wings level
inverted. The recovery from inverted is like the second half of a
loop, followed by three more pull-ups and rolls until four "leafs" of
the cloverleaf are completed. Typically only one or two leafs are
flown in practice.

Think of it as a vertical turning maneuver. If Lawrence was defending
against Galland, it wouldn't have been particularly difficult for
Galland to follow him through. If Lawrence was offensive, it might
have been a maneuver (unseen) allowing him to reduce heading crossing
angle or overtake, increasing spacing and allowing him to drop into a
shooting position.

It's more likely that the maneuver was a variant of the "barrel-roll"
attack which is a large barrel-roll used to simultaneously reduce
aspect angle (the angular position off the tail of the target
aircraft--not heading crossing angle, usually referred to as "angle
off") and take spacing on the defender. Think of this as two aircraft
on nearly parallel tracks--one pulls up and rolls toward the other
while the target aircraft proceeds straight ahead. The attacker flies
a longer path while slowing down and then speeding back up thereby
allowing the defender to move forward relative to the shooter.

End of BFM (Basic Fighter Maneuver) lesson for today.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
***"When Thunder Rolled:
*** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
*** from Smithsonian Books
ISBN: 1588341038

Some interesting info on JV 44's "Sachsenberg Schwarm" of the 4
Fw-190Ds that protected the Me-262s from loitering Allied aircraft:



http://www.pasadenamodelers.com/THEAERONUT.htm

Rob

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 19:36:35 -0400, Stephen Harding
wrote:

In a description of an alledged fight between American
pilot named Lawrence in a P-38 versus Adolf Galland in
a Ta-152 (or was that an FW 190D??), Lawrence mentions
a "cloverleaf" maneuver that apparently positioned him
well against Galland.

From the context of the story, I gather it was something
a P-38 was especially good at because of it's twin engine
control. Galland was apparently surprised by the maneuver.

Anyone know what this maneuver actually was, and if a P-38
was especially good at it?

CC, I think the story came from you! Care to comment?

Don't know why it's taken me so long to ask, but I just
gotta know now!


SMH

The pilot involved was Col. John Lowell, Commanding Officer of the 364th
Fighter Group (briefly).

Lowell nearly killed Galland, who escaped only because Lowell elected to
break off having flown well past his fuel window. During a fighter pilot reunion
sometime after the war, Galland overheard Lowell telling the story and
confronted him saying something similar to; "It vas you who nearly keeled me!"
They compared notes and agreed that they had in fact fought each other that day.

As to the cloverleaf maneuver; a description was posted to RAM in 1998:

"During the late winter of 1944 ocurred the famous dual between a
Griffon-engined Spitfire XII and a P-38H of the 364FG. Col. Lowell few the
P-38, engaging the Spitfire at 5,000 ft. in a head-on pass. Lowell was
able to get on the Spitfire's tail and stay there no matter what the
Spitfire pilot did. Although the Spitfire could execute a tighter turning
circle than the P-38, Lowell was able to use the P-38's excellent stall
characteristics to repeatedly pull inside the Spit's turn radius and ride
the stall, then back off outside the Spit's turn, pick up speed and cut
back in again in what he called a "cloverleaf" maneuver. After 20 minutes
of this, at 1,000 ft. altitude, the Spit tried a Spit-S (at a 30-degree
angle, not vertically down). Lowell stayed with the Spit through the
maneuver, although his P-38 almost hit the ground. After that the
Spitfire pilot broke off the engagement and flew home. This contest was
witnessed by 75 pilots on the ground.

The cloverleaf was a horizontal maneuver that took advantage of the P-38's
exceptionally gentle stall characteristics. It was a low-speed maneuver. The
pilot would tighten his turn until he actually stalled out, ease off and let
the plane unstall itself, then tighten back up into a stall, ease up....
Viewed from above, the pattern the airplane flew through the air looked
something like a cloverleaf, and this simile was used in teaching the maneuver."

Lowell was an exceptional pilot finishing the war with 7.5 victories.

My regards,

Widewing (C.C. Jordan)
http://www.worldwar2aviation.com
http://www.netaces.org
http://www.hitechcreations.com

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:09:39 GMT, (Corey
C. Jordan) wrote:

After 20 minutes
of this, at 1,000 ft. altitude, the Spit tried a Spit-S (at a 30-degree
angle, not vertically down). Lowell stayed with the Spit through the
maneuver, although his P-38 almost hit the ground.

After posting this I was a bit troubled by the statement that a Spitfire Mk.XII
attempted a split-S from 1,000 ft. AGL.

So, I jumped into Hitech Creation's WWII combat sim and tried the maneuver
in a Spitfire Mk.Vc, Spitfire Mk.IX, Spitfire Mk.XIV and a P-38L.

As far as I'm concerned, it's improbable at best. Here's the minimum altitude
required to safely execute a split-S in each type beginning at 250 mph TAS,
throttle pulled back to idle.

Spitfire Mk.Vc: 1,300 ft
Spitfire Mk.IX: 1,450 ft
Spitfire Mk.XIV: 1,600 ft
P-38L-1-LO: 1,700 ft.

The single biggest factor here is weight. That determines peak velocity
through the maneuver. In each case the heavier the fighter, the higher the peak
speed during the maneuver. Indeed, you can't dive at "30 degrees" simply because
you must pull the stick all the way back and keep it there to avoid contacting
the ground.

Had the original writer said 2,000 ft, I could accept that, but 1,000 ft is
entirely too low to have any hope of avoiding a pancake at best, or
a nose down auger at worst.

My regards,

Widewing (C.C. Jordan)
http://www.worldwar2aviation.com
http://www.netaces.org
http://www.hitechcreations.com

The cloverleaf was a horizontal maneuver that took advantage of the P-38's
exceptionally gentle stall characteristics.

C.C., I vaguely recall reading, many years ago, that Tom McGuire died
as a result of stalling his P-38 in a turn at a low altitude, which
gave me the impression that the P-38 must have had rather un-gentle
stall characteristics.

Is my memory playing tricks on me?

Thanks. vince norris

After posting this I was a bit troubled by the statement that a Spitfire
Mk.XII
attempted a split-S from 1,000 ft. AGL.

Good notice of this error. Minimum altitude in Mustang would be 2000' to give
some safe margins for recovery. Its laminar wing is not as capable of minimum
radii "half-loops" as the Spitfire's wing. I'm not sure if this correlates with
any sim modeling.
VL
PS: Throttle to idle does not get the minimum radius. Maximum G limit AND
minimum TAS provide minimum radius "loops". The maximum G is the structural
limit and the minimum speed at which the maximum G could be obtained is the
target TAS. This target TAS sometimes requires the addition or subtraction of
power to obtain and or sustain. In the Mustang it is 270 mph.
Hope this helps.

On 20 Aug 2003 04:52:18 GMT, (MLenoch) wrote:

After posting this I was a bit troubled by the statement that a Spitfire
Mk.XII
attempted a split-S from 1,000 ft. AGL.

Good notice of this error. Minimum altitude in Mustang would be 2000' to give
some safe margins for recovery. Its laminar wing is not as capable of minimum
radii "half-loops" as the Spitfire's wing. I'm not sure if this correlates with
any sim modeling.
VL
PS: Throttle to idle does not get the minimum radius. Maximum G limit AND
minimum TAS provide minimum radius "loops". The maximum G is the structural
limit and the minimum speed at which the maximum G could be obtained is the
target TAS. This target TAS sometimes requires the addition or subtraction of
power to obtain and or sustain. In the Mustang it is 270 mph.
Hope this helps.

Here's what I tried. Using the simulator, I took a P-51D-15-NA with 25% fuel.
I climbed to 2,000 feet and adjusted throttle till airspeed was stable. After
rolling inverted I pulled off the power and pulled through the half-loop.
Testing was done over water so that I had a consistant and reasonably level
surface below.

At 200 mph TAS, I cleared the water by 8 feet..... Way too close!!
At 250 mph TAS, I cleared the water by 85 feet. Better but still little margin.
At 270 mph TAS, I cleared the water by 220 feet. Much better.. plenty of room.

Unlike the first two, I was able to pull 6G+ at 270 mph.

Looks like they got the physics about right.

My regards,

Widewing (C.C. Jordan)
http://www.worldwar2aviation.com
http://www.netaces.org
http://www.hitechcreations.com

(Corey C. Jordan) wrote:

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:09:39 GMT, (Corey
C. Jordan) wrote:

After 20 minutes
of this, at 1,000 ft. altitude, the Spit tried a Spit-S (at a 30-degree
angle, not vertically down). Lowell stayed with the Spit through the
maneuver, although his P-38 almost hit the ground.

After posting this I was a bit troubled by the statement that a Spitfire Mk.XII
attempted a split-S from 1,000 ft. AGL.

So, I jumped into Hitech Creation's WWII combat sim and tried the maneuver
in a Spitfire Mk.Vc, Spitfire Mk.IX, Spitfire Mk.XIV and a P-38L.

As far as I'm concerned, it's improbable at best. Here's the minimum altitude
required to safely execute a split-S in each type beginning at 250 mph TAS,
throttle pulled back to idle.

Spitfire Mk.Vc: 1,300 ft
Spitfire Mk.IX: 1,450 ft
Spitfire Mk.XIV: 1,600 ft
P-38L-1-LO: 1,700 ft.

Note in your original post and again in the lead to this elaboration
the parenthetical notice that the maneuver was "at a 30-degree angle,
not vertically down."

Just as the description of what Lowell was doing isn't technically a
"Cloverleaf", so also this is not a "split-S." It's a descending hard
turn, almost what is referred to in more modern terminology as a
"sliceback". Whenever you use some descending vertical in a turn, you
decrease your turn radius gaining some radial G from gravity.

To return to the original description of Lowell's maneuver, it sounds
as though he was exercising a series of high and low yo-yos. First, to
control overtake and reduce angles, he pulls the nose up to slow and
minimize overshoot of the target's turning circle. Then from high
slightly outside the target flight path in a lag pursuit position, he
rolls over and lowers the nose to take a cut across the target's
circle and gain closer. A high yo-yo, followed by a low yo-yo.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
***"When Thunder Rolled:
*** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
*** from Smithsonian Books
ISBN: 1588341038