Directional control after touchdown...

On 2007-05-20, Dan wrote:
What are the proper control inputs to correct the situation?

Whatever it takes (including FULL control deflection) to keep it going
straight. If you're starting to weather vane to the right, and are still
weather vaning with the amount of left rudder you have, adding more left
rudder until you start going straight won't make you ground loop. On the
contrary - it'll stop you ground looping to the right!

The C182 has quite an effective rudder (good enough for a 20 kt direct
crosswind, when running just on the main wheels) - don't be shy about
using it!

Never give up - if it looks like you need more control input to keep it
from going off the runway, use it. If you find yourself in a situation
with a sudden very strong crosswind gust, don't forget the wheel brake
also counts for directional control.

--
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Alan Gerber wrote:
In rec.aviation.student B A R R Y wrote:
Most of the non-towered fields I use have either an AWOS or ASOS
(maybe Belfort? G), that updates every minute, but the same caveats
apply about the location of the instrument taking the reading vs. the
runway.

Besides that, the wind can *change* between the time the reading is taken
and the time you flare.

Absolutely!

Each landing was different from the one before

That's the thing about landings. G

Recently, Dan posted:

I've got a question for the group. Suppose you find yourself in the
following situation:

You are flying a C182, landing on runway 22. The ATIS lists the winds
as 240 at 10. The windsock is not visible.

[...]

That is not a lot of wind, and it's certainly not a lot of crosswind (get
out the whiz wheel). The result that you were experiencing has to be from
some other cause... perhaps ATIS was wrong?

So... what I'd suggest is to pay attention to what the plane *is* doing
rather than the theory of what it should be doing based on ATIS.

Neil

Matt Whiting wrote:

Newps wrote:



Peter Dohm wrote:




I am pretty sure that there is also more wind six feet from the
graound than
there is three feet from the ground.


You're kidding.




Presumably there are plenty of statistics on the subject,



You'll never find that as it isn't true.


It absolutely is true. Wind velocity drops dramatically as it
approaches a surface.

I better get my digital handheld windmeter recalibrated becxause at 4
feet, the top of the wing on my Bo and six feet, the top of the wing on
a typical Cessna the wind is the same.

On May 21, 5:23 am, "Neil Gould" wrote:
Recently, Dan posted:

I've got a question for the group. Suppose you find yourself in the
following situation:

You are flying a C182, landing on runway 22. The ATIS lists the winds
as 240 at 10. The windsock is not visible.

[...]

That is not a lot of wind, and it's certainly not a lot of crosswind (get
out the whiz wheel). The result that you were experiencing has to be from
some other cause... perhaps ATIS was wrong?

So... what I'd suggest is to pay attention to what the plane *is* doing
rather than the theory of what it should be doing based on ATIS.

Neil

OK... However, it does sound like the consensus from the group is that
aileron does nothing to correct drift once the plane has touched
down...

--Dan

Recently, Dan posted:

On May 21, 5:23 am, "Neil Gould" wrote:
Recently, Dan posted:

I've got a question for the group. Suppose you find yourself in the
following situation:

You are flying a C182, landing on runway 22. The ATIS lists the
winds as 240 at 10. The windsock is not visible.

[...]

That is not a lot of wind, and it's certainly not a lot of crosswind
(get out the whiz wheel). The result that you were experiencing has
to be from some other cause... perhaps ATIS was wrong?

So... what I'd suggest is to pay attention to what the plane *is*
doing rather than the theory of what it should be doing based on
ATIS.

Neil

OK... However, it does sound like the consensus from the group is that
aileron does nothing to correct drift once the plane has touched
down...

I agree, if all wheels are on the ground and the wind is light. OTOH, if
you are touched down on one main, the ailerons are rather important. If
the winds are heavy, they can also keep both of your mains planted on the
runway. IMO, there is no pat answer that supercedes paying attention to
what the plane is doing.

You've gotten some good feedback, and I'd second the suggestion that you
to get some more x-wind experience with an instructor.

Neil

"Dan" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 21, 5:23 am, "Neil Gould" wrote:
Recently, Dan posted:

I've got a question for the group. Suppose you find yourself in the
following situation:

You are flying a C182, landing on runway 22. The ATIS lists the winds
as 240 at 10. The windsock is not visible.

[...]

That is not a lot of wind, and it's certainly not a lot of crosswind (get
out the whiz wheel). The result that you were experiencing has to be from
some other cause... perhaps ATIS was wrong?

So... what I'd suggest is to pay attention to what the plane *is* doing
rather than the theory of what it should be doing based on ATIS.

Neil

OK... However, it does sound like the consensus from the group is that
aileron does nothing to correct drift once the plane has touched
down...

--Dan

Saying ailerons do "nothing" to correct drift after touchdown is probably an
oversimplification. If you land in a banked condition, the ailerons can
help you maintain that condition. Also, even if you've got all of the
wheels on the ground, correct aileron input will reduce the aircraft's
tendency to raise the upwind wing. To a smaller extent, aileron deflection
after touchdown will result in *some* bank angle, because the left and right
gear will have different loading. This is particularly true at higher
speeds, such as right after touchdown.

KB

"Newps" wrote in message
. ..


Matt Whiting wrote:


You'll never find that as it isn't true.


It absolutely is true. Wind velocity drops dramatically as it approaches
a surface.

I better get my digital handheld windmeter recalibrated becxause at 4
feet, the top of the wing on my Bo and six feet, the top of the wing on a
typical Cessna the wind is the same.

I'm sure Whiting will come back that there's 0.05 MPH difference and that
difference should be taken into account.

"Dan" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 20, 6:34 am, john smith wrote:
Dan wrote:

I am working on a checkout in this C182 after about 400 hours in
Pipers. Compared to what I am used to, the Cessna ground handling
(especially after touchdown) seems very squirrley. I've had the same
experience with the couple hours I have in 152s and 172s as well.


Pipers will always feel much more "sure footed" compared to Cessnas, it's
all in the landing gear. Walk up to both aircraft when they are untied and
try rocking the wings. Big difference. The narrow stance and spring steel
landing gear is a completely different ballgame.

The Piper will feel more agile on a nice paved runway, but it's hard to beat
the ride of a Cessna when the surface starts getting rough. Just boils down
to personal preference and where you fly most I guess.

Matt Barrow wrote:
"Newps" wrote in message
. ..

Matt Whiting wrote:

You'll never find that as it isn't true.

It absolutely is true. Wind velocity drops dramatically as it approaches
a surface.
I better get my digital handheld windmeter recalibrated becxause at 4
feet, the top of the wing on my Bo and six feet, the top of the wing on a
typical Cessna the wind is the same.

I'm sure Whiting will come back that there's 0.05 MPH difference and that
difference should be taken into account.



Plonk.