Military HF communications under attack

The FCC is full speed ahead with its BPL (Broadband over Powerline)
rule-making, and the U.S. Air Force is looking to spend billions now on
replacement communications systems, as the use of HF radio will no
longer be possible. Some studies have even predicted that interference
problems will go all the way into the aircraft VHF navigation and voice
bands. "Certainly, the end of LORAN and marine DGPS is at hand" said
William C. Brodie, Air Force Director of Communications.

FCC Commissioner Abernathy says that BPL will be "Broadband
Nirvana." The military is trained to adapt, and they will adapt to
consumer needs.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-239079A1.pdf

"Gene Storey" wrote in message
...
The FCC is full speed ahead with its BPL (Broadband over Powerline)
rule-making, and the U.S. Air Force is looking to spend billions now on
replacement communications systems, as the use of HF radio will no
longer be possible. Some studies have even predicted that interference
problems will go all the way into the aircraft VHF navigation and voice
bands. "Certainly, the end of LORAN and marine DGPS is at hand" said
William C. Brodie, Air Force Director of Communications.

FCC Commissioner Abernathy says that BPL will be "Broadband
Nirvana." The military is trained to adapt, and they will adapt to
consumer needs.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-239079A1.pdf

I don't see the people, or the quotes you mention in the URL.

What is it you are supposed to be Storey?

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 04:27:52 GMT, Gene Storey wrote:
The FCC is full speed ahead with its BPL (Broadband over Powerline)
rule-making, and the U.S. Air Force is looking to spend billions now on
replacement communications systems, as the use of HF radio will no
longer be possible.

Why not?

Some studies have even predicted that interference
problems

What's causing the interference?

will go all the way into the aircraft VHF navigation and voice
bands.

Why?

"Certainly, the end of LORAN and marine DGPS is at hand" said
William C. Brodie, Air Force Director of Communications.

And is it?

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia

"phil hunt" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 04:27:52 GMT, Gene Storey wrote:
The FCC is full speed ahead with its BPL (Broadband over Powerline)
rule-making, and the U.S. Air Force is looking to spend billions now on
replacement communications systems, as the use of HF radio will no
longer be possible.

Why not?

Some studies have even predicted that interference
problems

What's causing the interference?

According to http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2003/08/08/2/?nc=1 , BRL is
using frequecies of 2 - 80 MHz (i.e. HF and sneaking into the bottom end of
VHF). I suspect that the power cables are acting as antenna.



will go all the way into the aircraft VHF navigation and voice
bands.

Why?

"Certainly, the end of LORAN and marine DGPS is at hand" said
William C. Brodie, Air Force Director of Communications.

And is it?

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia

"Nigel Isherwood" wrote in message
. ..

"phil hunt" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 04:27:52 GMT, Gene Storey wrote:
The FCC is full speed ahead with its BPL (Broadband over Powerline)
rule-making, and the U.S. Air Force is looking to spend billions now on
replacement communications systems, as the use of HF radio will no
longer be possible.

Why not?

Some studies have even predicted that interference
problems

What's causing the interference?

According to http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2003/08/08/2/?nc=1 , BRL is
using frequecies of 2 - 80 MHz (i.e. HF and sneaking into the bottom end
of
VHF). I suspect that the power cables are acting as antenna.

The lines are pretty "long" at those frequencies, to make much of an
antenna.

"phil hunt" wrote
Gene Storey wrote:
The FCC is full speed ahead with its BPL (Broadband over Powerline)
rule-making, and the U.S. Air Force is looking to spend billions now on
replacement communications systems, as the use of HF radio will no
longer be possible.

Why not?

Tune your radio to 60 Hz.

After BPL 2 mHz to 80 mHz (and their harmonics) will have trash on the
whole spectrum.

"Gene Storey" wrote:

"phil hunt" wrote
Gene Storey wrote:
The FCC is full speed ahead with its BPL (Broadband over Powerline)
rule-making, and the U.S. Air Force is looking to spend billions now on
replacement communications systems, as the use of HF radio will no
longer be possible.

Why not?

Tune your radio to 60 Hz.

After BPL 2 mHz to 80 mHz (and their harmonics) will have trash on the
whole spectrum.


C'mon Gene, try to make some sense here will you?...why should
one tune to 60 Hz? (the power line freq btw). Pls do explain what
the hell you're talking about.
--

-Gord.

" wrote:

"Gene Storey" wrote:

"phil hunt" wrote
Gene Storey wrote:
The FCC is full speed ahead with its BPL (Broadband over Powerline)
rule-making, and the U.S. Air Force is looking to spend billions now on
replacement communications systems, as the use of HF radio will no
longer be possible.

Why not?

Tune your radio to 60 Hz.

After BPL 2 mHz to 80 mHz (and their harmonics) will have trash on the
whole spectrum.


C'mon Gene, try to make some sense here will you?...why should
one tune to 60 Hz? (the power line freq btw). Pls do explain what
the hell you're talking about.
--

-Gord.


I presume he is trying to make the, valid, point that all those power
lines radiate a very nice signal at 60Hz, and by implication that they
will do the same if BPL is permitted to transmit digital data between 2
and 80MHz over the same lines.

It's late, so I'm not going to try and look it up now, but IIRC BPL has
been banned in some administrations for precisely that reason - ISTR
that Japan is one such administration.

BTW John - Long (very long) wires make excellent antennas provided that
they are at least several wavelenghts long.

Dave

"Gord Beaman" wrote

C'mon Gene, try to make some sense here will you?...why should
one tune to 60 Hz? (the power line freq btw). Pls do explain what
the hell you're talking about.

The power line frequency (after BPL) will include the frequencies
2 to 80 MHz and the harmonics. I was just using 60 Hz a poor example.

WWV time signals will be wiped-out. NDB navigation sites will be
wiped out. Etc, etc. The noise floor in the 2-60 MHz band will be
significantly higher than it is now, thus requiring higher power, or a
change in operating frequency.

"Gene Storey" wrote in message
...
"Gord Beaman" wrote

C'mon Gene, try to make some sense here will you?...why should
one tune to 60 Hz? (the power line freq btw). Pls do explain what
the hell you're talking about.

The power line frequency (after BPL) will include the frequencies
2 to 80 MHz and the harmonics. I was just using 60 Hz a poor example.

WWV time signals will be wiped-out. NDB navigation sites will be
wiped out. Etc, etc. The noise floor in the 2-60 MHz band will be
significantly higher than it is now, thus requiring higher power, or a
change in operating frequency.



Scottish Power are already running broadband over power lines,
this doesnt seem to have wiped out HF communication
and the authorities in the UK who jealously guard radio
frequencies seem not to be over worried.

Keith