Beech bonanaza crash

I tried to find the story on the website with no luck. Following is a
heavily edited version

---------------------------------------------------------------

From Spokesman-Review (spokesmanreview.com), Spokane, Wa 09/14/07

Plane crash kills all three on board

An A-36 Beechcraft bonanza registed toTextana Inc, a Montana oil and
gas exploration company, on a flight from Havre Montana to Skagit
Regional airport crashed near Burlington, Wa (about 60 miles N of
Seattle).

FAA spokesman Allen Kenitzer said the plane was preparing to land when
it dropped off radar.

NTSB investigor Kirt Anderson said the plane was on its second
approach to the airport at the time. Anderson said visibility was 1/4
mile with a cloud ceiling of 100 ft but it was too early to say
whether the weather played any part.

--------------------------------------------------------

Interesting conditions for a single engine plane attempting to land.

Harry K

Harry K wrote:
I tried to find the story on the website with no luck. Following is a
heavily edited version

---------------------------------------------------------------

From Spokesman-Review (spokesmanreview.com), Spokane, Wa 09/14/07

Plane crash kills all three on board

An A-36 Beechcraft bonanza registed toTextana Inc, a Montana oil and
gas exploration company, on a flight from Havre Montana to Skagit
Regional airport crashed near Burlington, Wa (about 60 miles N of
Seattle).

FAA spokesman Allen Kenitzer said the plane was preparing to land when
it dropped off radar.

NTSB investigor Kirt Anderson said the plane was on its second
approach to the airport at the time. Anderson said visibility was 1/4
mile with a cloud ceiling of 100 ft but it was too early to say
whether the weather played any part.

--------------------------------------------------------

Interesting conditions for a single engine plane attempting to land.

Harry K

Surely it was IFR. They must have done a missed approach and were
coming a second time hoping it would lift a bit. The ceiling may be
reported as 100 but the pilot just needs a visual reference of some kind
at 200 if it's an ILS, like runway approach lights which could be
visible from within the lower fringe of the cloud base, to be legal to
land so it isn't necessarily wrong to try it even though the reported
ceiling is below minimums.

John

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 22:08:12 -0400, "J.Kahn"
wrote:

Harry K wrote:
I tried to find the story on the website with no luck. Following is a
heavily edited version

---------------------------------------------------------------

From Spokesman-Review (spokesmanreview.com), Spokane, Wa 09/14/07

Plane crash kills all three on board

An A-36 Beechcraft bonanza registed toTextana Inc, a Montana oil and
gas exploration company, on a flight from Havre Montana to Skagit
Regional airport crashed near Burlington, Wa (about 60 miles N of
Seattle).

FAA spokesman Allen Kenitzer said the plane was preparing to land when
it dropped off radar.

NTSB investigor Kirt Anderson said the plane was on its second
approach to the airport at the time. Anderson said visibility was 1/4
mile with a cloud ceiling of 100 ft but it was too early to say
whether the weather played any part.

--------------------------------------------------------

Interesting conditions for a single engine plane attempting to land.

Harry K

Surely it was IFR. They must have done a missed approach and were
coming a second time hoping it would lift a bit. The ceiling may be
reported as 100 but the pilot just needs a visual reference of some kind

I've landed at Midland MI, Barstow (3BS) when nearby KMBS (11.3 Mi)
was reporting occ below 200 which is DH for the ILS. It was probably
in the neighbor hood of 100 around 3BS. I shot the VOR with the full
expectation of having to go missed and maybe even have to hold for the
ILS at MBS. I was at MDA (1140MSL/504AGL with only an occasional
glimpse of the ground below. About 3 miles from the airport a path
opened up leaving the airport in plain sight and a ceiling of roughly
600. A mile either side of us appeared to be 100 to 200 feet.

You shoot the approach, but don't go below MDA expecting it to be
clear just because of the occasional glimpse of land. Those holes
were the exception. Had we not had that big opening, I'd have
continued on to MBS after the missed with no second attempt.

There is a strong *tendency* for pilots to push their luck and
descent below MDA on subsequent approaches if they think it might be
clear just a little lower.

I saw that at OSH a few years back. The morning started out with
conditions below minimums for the VOR-27. You could hear the planes
shooting approaches for about half an hour, then one guy dropped below
the cloud deck which was still low. The flood gates opened.

Roger (K8RI)

at 200 if it's an ILS, like runway approach lights which could be
visible from within the lower fringe of the cloud base, to be legal to
land so it isn't necessarily wrong to try it even though the reported
ceiling is below minimums.

John

Roger (K8RI) wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 22:08:12 -0400, "J.Kahn"
wrote:

Harry K wrote:
I tried to find the story on the website with no luck. Following is a
heavily edited version

---------------------------------------------------------------

From Spokesman-Review (spokesmanreview.com), Spokane, Wa 09/14/07

Plane crash kills all three on board

An A-36 Beechcraft bonanza registed toTextana Inc, a Montana oil and
gas exploration company, on a flight from Havre Montana to Skagit
Regional airport crashed near Burlington, Wa (about 60 miles N of
Seattle).

FAA spokesman Allen Kenitzer said the plane was preparing to land when
it dropped off radar.

NTSB investigor Kirt Anderson said the plane was on its second
approach to the airport at the time. Anderson said visibility was 1/4
mile with a cloud ceiling of 100 ft but it was too early to say
whether the weather played any part.

--------------------------------------------------------

Interesting conditions for a single engine plane attempting to land.

Harry K

Surely it was IFR. They must have done a missed approach and were
coming a second time hoping it would lift a bit. The ceiling may be
reported as 100 but the pilot just needs a visual reference of some kind

I've landed at Midland MI, Barstow (3BS) when nearby KMBS (11.3 Mi)
was reporting occ below 200 which is DH for the ILS. It was probably
in the neighbor hood of 100 around 3BS. I shot the VOR with the full
expectation of having to go missed and maybe even have to hold for the
ILS at MBS. I was at MDA (1140MSL/504AGL with only an occasional
glimpse of the ground below. About 3 miles from the airport a path
opened up leaving the airport in plain sight and a ceiling of roughly
600. A mile either side of us appeared to be 100 to 200 feet.

You shoot the approach, but don't go below MDA expecting it to be
clear just because of the occasional glimpse of land. Those holes
were the exception. Had we not had that big opening, I'd have
continued on to MBS after the missed with no second attempt.

There is a strong *tendency* for pilots to push their luck and
descent below MDA on subsequent approaches if they think it might be
clear just a little lower.

I saw that at OSH a few years back. The morning started out with
conditions below minimums for the VOR-27. You could hear the planes
shooting approaches for about half an hour, then one guy dropped below
the cloud deck which was still low. The flood gates opened.

Roger (K8RI)

at 200 if it's an ILS, like runway approach lights which could be
visible from within the lower fringe of the cloud base, to be legal to
land so it isn't necessarily wrong to try it even though the reported
ceiling is below minimums.

John

Doing my instr rating I realized that the circling non precision
approach, with only 300ft obstacle clearance allowed for by MDA, done in
a heavily loaded piston twin is probably one of the most dangerous
maneuvers in aviation. Very little room for screwing around. No
surprise that the altitude tolerance for the ride is -0 ft below MDA.

John

On Sep 14, 10:40 pm, Harry K wrote:
I tried to find the story on the website with no luck. Following is a
heavily edited version

---------------------------------------------------------------

From Spokesman-Review (spokesmanreview.com), Spokane, Wa 09/14/07

Plane crash kills all three on board

An A-36 Beechcraft bonanza registed toTextana Inc, a Montana oil and
gas exploration company, on a flight from Havre Montana to Skagit
Regional airport crashed near Burlington, Wa (about 60 miles N of
Seattle).

FAA spokesman Allen Kenitzer said the plane was preparing to land when
it dropped off radar.

NTSB investigor Kirt Anderson said the plane was on its second
approach to the airport at the time. Anderson said visibility was 1/4
mile with a cloud ceiling of 100 ft but it was too early to say
whether the weather played any part.

--------------------------------------------------------

Interesting conditions for a single engine plane attempting to land.

Harry K

Update:

From the Spokesman-Review, Spokane, WA 09/27/07

Pilot in Fatal Plane Crash Tried a GPS Landing

Associated Press

Great Falls - A Havre (Montana) based plane that crashed in Washington
state, killing all three people aboard, clipped some trees as the
pilot was attempting a second global positioning system approach to
land, the NTSB said in a preliminary report.

Pilot John O. Brown Sr., 59 and passengers Randall Mcpherson and
Cristopher Schafer died in the Sept 13 crash at bayview-Skagit
regional Airport....

The plane crashed into a dense stand of trees about four hours later,
1.5 miles NW of the runway's approach....

The cloud ceiling was 100 feet overcast and visibility was a quarter
mile, said NTSB Investigator-In-charge Orrin K. Anderson....

--------------------------------------------------

I didn't know GPS could be used as a landing aid.

Harry K

Harry K wrote:

I didn't know GPS could be used as a landing aid.

Harry K

Harry K wrote:

The plane crashed into a dense stand of trees about four hours later,
1.5 miles NW of the runway's approach....

The cloud ceiling was 100 feet overcast and visibility was a quarter
mile, said NTSB Investigator-In-charge Orrin K. Anderson....

--------------------------------------------------

I didn't know GPS could be used as a landing aid.

Harry K

Yes you can and there is a GPS approach for rwy 28 there. BUT the MDA is
600-1 at best.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
Harry K wrote:

The plane crashed into a dense stand of trees about four hours later,
1.5 miles NW of the runway's approach....

The cloud ceiling was 100 feet overcast and visibility was a quarter
mile, said NTSB Investigator-In-charge Orrin K. Anderson....

--------------------------------------------------

I didn't know GPS could be used as a landing aid.

Harry K

Yes you can and there is a GPS approach for rwy 28 there. BUT the MDA is
600-1 at best.

Plus, it must be an IFR approved, panel mounted GPS.

No handhelds need apply. (;-))
--
Jim in NC

"Harry K" wrote in message ups.com...
The cloud ceiling was 100 feet overcast and visibility was a quarter
mile, said NTSB Investigator-In-charge Orrin K. Anderson....

--------------------------------------------------


Harry K


Cat I GPS approach?

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 22:56:43 -0400, "J.Kahn"
wrote:

Roger (K8RI) wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 22:08:12 -0400, "J.Kahn"
wrote:

snip

Doing my instr rating I realized that the circling non precision
approach, with only 300ft obstacle clearance allowed for by MDA, done in
a heavily loaded piston twin is probably one of the most dangerous
maneuvers in aviation. Very little room for screwing around. No

Yah, but they're fun in a high performance single. Nowhere else can I
get that low let alone steep turns with plenty of powerover the
airport.

Roger (K8RI)

surprise that the altitude tolerance for the ride is -0 ft below MDA.

John
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com