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#11
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While I completely agree with the substance of Ed Rasimus' posting, I find that
most discussions of the Bush Gore Florida fiasco tend to avoid several salient points. 1: Al Gore's father and my father could never have been friends. My father taught me that a man's word is his bond. Apparently Al Gore Senior neglected to teach this to his son. Al Gore conceded the election. His reasons and motivations for doing so are neither relevant, pertinent, or important. He conceded the election of his own volition. Subsequently, Al Gore withdrew his concession. Again, his reasons and motivations for doing so are neither relevant, pertinent, or important. This was an immoral act, and as Ed Rasimus stated in his post, "All of this was known by all of the players prior to the election. After you've played the game, if you are unhappy with how the score was kept, it is too late to change the rules. You've got to amend the Constitution BEFORE the election if you want the prez elected by the popular vote." If Al Gore made a bad decision based on flawed information, then he should have had the moral courage to live with it. He didn't. This reflects poorly on his character and on his intelligence. As a sidebar, I contend that a president should possess superior judgment than Al Gore demonstrated that evening. 2: The Democrat final recount awarded the win to George Bush by 537 votes. The Democraft news media independent recount awarded the win to George Bush by 493 votes. Democrat vote counters awarding the election to a Republican candidate. Where is the conspiracy? Where is the wrong doing? While not detracting from Ed Rasimus' valid point concerning how the President is really chosen, it does invalidate the ever persistent claims that "they stole the election from us." 3: Any and all discussion of the Supreme Court's involvement in this situation are irrelevant. Al Gore fired the first writ. Again, to paraphrase Ed Rasimus, don't play the game if you don't like the rules and the potential outcome. Many conservative defenders have become fond of replying to their Liberal attackers on this subject with, "Live with it!" What's to live with? The complaint and the challenge are both invalid. They are based on a lie. A better response would be, "Start telling the truth and start following the rules." Kurt Todoroff Markets, not mandates and mob rule. Consent, not compulsion. Remove "DELETEME" from my address to reply |
#12
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O.K. Tex-
What about the 10,000+ military ballots (absentee ballots) that were arbitrarily THROWN OUT (again, in Democratic controlled districts)? The voters assigned to Eglin AFB, PCola NAS, and Hurlburt AFB were "Disenfranchised" for being military. "Presumed Republican" I guess. Steve Swartz (p.s. I wasn't the one who broght this up- but ok, I'm guilty of keeping an OT thread alive) "Tex Houston" wrote in message ... "Leslie Swartz" wrote in message ... The problems were in democrat-run districts . . . Steve Swartz (and was anyone ever prosecuted for fraud- like the guy who had a voting machine in his trunk and several thousand ballots- or the owner of the van with the stacks of bundled ballots and the awl used to mass-vote? Both cases were democrat operatives in disputed counties. Oh by the way, you *do* know how "hanging chads" are created, don't you? Hint: it isn't in a voting booth with a single ballot . . . ) Were any found in MILITARY AIRCRAFT? Tex |
#13
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So-o-o-o-o-o if the local Democrat fails to follow state procedures, in
order to perpetrate a fraud, then it's the Governor's fault? Ri-i-i-i-ight. Steve Swartz "George Z. Bush" wrote in message ... "Ron" wrote in message ... And all this while I thought that Gov. "Jeb" Bush, and his Secretary of State Katheryn Harris and all of the rest of the people he appointed to help him run the state were Republicans. Silly me! If the truth doesn't suit you, just revise it into something that will. George Z. I think what he meant George was that the individual counties in question, that the ones in charge of the voting process were democrats, since those were largely urban counties in which Democrats were elected and in charge. The last time I looked, the governor was in charge of the election process within his state, and his appointed secretary of state monitored that function for him. It didn't matter who the Indians were.....they were the Chiefs and they had the authority and power to dictate to those Democratic Indians how things needed to be done. They get the "attaboys" when things work right, and the brickbats when they don't. Blaming it on Democratic county officials does not wash, at least for me. The supervisors could have seen to it that things worked better, and they didn't. They have to take the rap. George Z. |
#14
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George Z:
"NIT PICKY ISSUES?!?!?!" Circumventing AND BREAKING the law to try to get your candidate (illegally) "elected" are NOT "Nit Picky" issues. You're a very ungracious loser. And I'm not talking about the election. Steve Swartz (The democrats certainly have "Chutzpah," though. After unsuccessfully trying to steal the election, they have remained solidly "on message" that it was the republicans who tried to "steal" the election! What Gall!) "George Z. Bush" wrote in message ... "Ed Rasimus" wrote in message ... On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:55:05 -0400, "George Z. Bush" wrote: "Ron" wrote in message ... And all this while I thought that Gov. "Jeb" Bush, and his Secretary of State Katheryn Harris and all of the rest of the people he appointed to help him run the state were Republicans. Silly me! If the truth doesn't suit you, just revise it into something that will. George Z. I think what he meant George was that the individual counties in question, that the ones in charge of the voting process were democrats, since those were largely urban counties in which Democrats were elected and in charge. The last time I looked, the governor was in charge of the election process within his state, and his appointed secretary of state monitored that function for him. It didn't matter who the Indians were.....they were the Chiefs and they had the authority and power to dictate to those Democratic Indians how things needed to be done. They get the "attaboys" when things work right, and the brickbats when they don't. Blaming it on Democratic county officials does not wash, at least for me. The supervisors could have seen to it that things worked better, and they didn't. They have to take the rap. George Z. Well, when it comes to revising into a truth that suits, there seems to be a bit on George Z's side of the issue as well. Secretaries of State are elected offices, not appointed. Elections are administered at county level by county clerks (elected) who certify voter lists, establish polling places, design and certify ballots, purchase and maintain voting equipment, count ballots and certify the results to the state. So, you might be able to assign a bit of blame to Democrat county officials. Then, let's also be "fair and balanced" to note that the recount demand focussed on three counties, not all of the counties of the state. Why do you suppose that was? Did you note that those counties were Democrat controlled? Did you notice the discounting of absentee ballots? Who would be disenfranchised by that? Why do you suppose that was? But, most importantly (and to be fair, an issue you didn't raise), there is the question of who won the popular election. It doesn't matter!!! Constitutionally we elect the president through the electoral college. That's established by the Constitution. Selection of electors is controlled by the states. Voting procedure by the electors is established by the states. Unit rule voting is mandated by the laws in 38 states and done in the remaining twelve by tradition. All of this was known by all of the players prior to the election. After you've played the game, if you are unhappy with how the score was kept, it is too late to change the rules. You've got to amend the Constitution BEFORE the election if you want the prez elected by the popular vote. And, as I recall, it wasn't the Governor of FL or the Secretary of State that ruled in finality. It was the US Supreme Court, with its Constitutionally provided authority over lesser courts in our federal system that finally closed the issue. If that was unsatisfactory, then that rule needs to be changed BEFORE subsequent games as well. So, start concentrating on those Constitutional amendments. Start choosing your best candidate from the large cast of contenders. But, most importantly get over the last one. You can't make ground beating a poorly embalmed dead horse. Well, I'm flattered that a published author spent so much time straightening me out, and so eloquently, too. I'll concede all of the nit picky things you pointed out, primarily because I have no interest in revisiting the 2001 presidential election in Florida. And, when all is said and done, I'll stick with my previous position vis-a-vis the responsibilities of the elected Governor and his elected/appointed (whichever) Secretary of State. AFAIAC, it's all about attaboys and brickbats. George Z. |
#15
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I live in the county which houses Eglin and Hurlburt. No such event
occurred here. Ballots received were counted, even up to weeks later as the court ordered recount was conducted. By the way Okaloosa County, FL is not Democratic controlled, quite the opposite. Quit your knee-jerk conservative mouthing off before checking facts. Les P.S. I suppose mentioning two Air Force Bases makes this on topic. "Leslie Swartz" wrote in message ... O.K. Tex- What about the 10,000+ military ballots (absentee ballots) that were arbitrarily THROWN OUT (again, in Democratic controlled districts)? The voters assigned to Eglin AFB, PCola NAS, and Hurlburt AFB were "Disenfranchised" for being military. "Presumed Republican" I guess. Steve Swartz (p.s. I wasn't the one who broght this up- but ok, I'm guilty of keeping an OT thread alive) |
#16
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![]() "George Z. Bush" wrote in message ... "Ron" wrote in message ... And all this while I thought that Gov. "Jeb" Bush, and his Secretary of State Katheryn Harris and all of the rest of the people he appointed to help him run the state were Republicans. Silly me! If the truth doesn't suit you, just revise it into something that will. George Z. I think what he meant George was that the individual counties in question, that the ones in charge of the voting process were democrats, since those were largely urban counties in which Democrats were elected and in charge. The last time I looked, the governor was in charge of the election process within his state, Nope, the State Legislature controls how Electors are selected. |
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Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Inside A U.S. Election Vote Counting Program | Peter Twydell | Military Aviation | 0 | July 10th 03 08:28 AM |