Interested in soaring safety? Read this

On Dec 15, 6:14 am, Martin Gregorie
wrote:
Ramy wrote:
On Dec 14, 3:20 pm, tommytoyz wrote:
The point is to not assume that you will never forget a vital
function, no matter how good a pilot you think you are.

Or rather, that it is assured that at some point, everyone will forget
something ans so the importance of the checklist and that the ego in
us will always try to convince us the opposite.

I don't think anyone questions the importance of checklists, the
problem is how to enforce yourself to use it, and use it correctly.
There is much higher chance to forget using a checklist, or skip an
item in the checklist, than making any other mistakes. Especially the
landing checklist, any distraction and the first thing to go will
likely be the checklist. Any ideas how to make sure you never skip an
item on the landing checklist?

Dymotape "WUF" (or whatever your acronym of choice is) onto the panel?

Now, if somebody could come up with a good acronym for a dry, unflapped
glider.... ULT (Undercarriage, Lookout, Trim) is about all I can come up
with.

--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, but my point is, how can you make sure you will follow the
checklist on the panel when something goes wrong or distructs you.
After all, this is when we get in trouble, when something else goes
wrong.

Ramy

On Dec 16, 12:12 am, Ramy wrote:

Yeah, but my point is, how can you make sure you will follow the
checklist

T-R-A-I-N-I-N-G. P-R-A-C-T-I-C-E.

As Henry says: "Take the tow."

As Pete says: "Take the CFIG." At least once a year.

Practice your emergency procedures (no flap landings, no spoiler
landings). What do you think the military pilots do most of the
time? What do commercial pilots expect when they take their simulator
rides (at least once a year, sometimes twice a year)?

Make your own checklist. I've gotten in the habit of doing that for
each airplane (and each glider) I fly. As a Flight Test Guy, this
saves lives, saves money and makes the difference between success and
failure. The sun is setting on these items, but how many diamonds
would have been ACHIEVED if the checklist (the usually non-existent
checklist) had included the following two items:
1.) Wind barograph.
2.) Load film in camera, wind camera.

How many lives (and gliders) would have been saved if these had been
on the checklist?
A.) Positive Control Check - Elevator
B.) Positive Control Check - Rudder
C.) Positive Control Check - Aileron Left
D.) Positive Control Check - Aileron Right
E.) Positive Control Check - Spoiler Right
F.) Positive Control Check - Spoiler Left

Yup, I've been a dummy: took off once with the static ports still
taped over. Knew what to do: turned it into a pattern tow and a
practice "emergency" landing. Untaped the statics, did a (more
thorough) complete walk-around (preflight), got in line and took the
relight for a damn fine flight. And statics got added to the
preflight checklist!!! BTW, that's not the only time I've been a
dummy -- those that know me ...

A checklist is no substitute for airmanship. RAS posting is no
substitute for getting current AND competent in your machine. It
seems that too many of us get one or two flights in at the beginning
of the season, and then go striking out hunting diamonds (yeah, me
too). We should spend more time locally, with or without the Constant
Flight Interruptor aboard. We should practice more landings, short/
soft field with obstacle landings...simulated landing out landings.

After you use a checklist for a while, you'll find that they're
terrific security blankets, and help you relax more during the
flight. Keep the mnemonics (USTALL, TWA, GUMP) as safety nets. When
you forget your checklist, and feel brave enough to fly without it,
make sure you touch and say every item within your reach (spoilers,
release, flaps, gear, relief tube...).

The pros fly with checklists. The FAA condones the discipline. Many
accident investigation reports cite, as one of the causes, the crew's
failure to follow the appropriate checklist.

It's at least as important as your parachute. Hopefully, you'll use
the checklist more often.

-Pete
#309

On Dec 15, 7:50 pm, Tom Gardner wrote:
On Dec 14, 3:52 pm, jeplane wrote:

Well, I'll be the one who didn't get it.
This article is about intensive care, and how in modern times,
medicine does wonders.
But what does that has to do with soaring?

I think the parallels for 1,2,3 (below) between hospitals and gliding
are obvious.

1) experienced, highly skilled, and highly self confident people
2) those people doing similar (but slightly different) tasks over and
over again
3) unnecessarily high Bad Things happening

After...
a) introducing *multiple* checklists, one for each task
b) providing an atmosphere in which *everybody* *checked* the highly
skilled people followed the checklists every time
c) actually following the checklists
...Bad Things almost completely stopped happening

Overall, it was a well written article, unfortunately spread over 8
pages

One of the key things seemed to be empowering the nurses to prompt the
doctors where necessary - they often knew the doctors were not
following the procedure but for various reasons didn't intervene. (In
fact I read it that they ended up with a 'checklist' nurse who checked
it all on a clipboard as the procedure was executed) The same occurs
on the flight deck - there have been accidents with commercial traffic
where the FO has realised something is wrong and either not told the
PIC or been overruled. The same attitude of humility is needed there,
and of course in a 2-seat glider.

On 15 Dec, 07:31, Ramy wrote:

I don't think anyone questions the importance of checklists, the
problem is how to enforce yourself to use it, and use it correctly.

There's also a question about when they are appropriate. Would anyone
here use a checklist for thermalling? I once had someone try to
convince me to use a check list for a winch launch cable break[*] -
is that a good use of the couple of seconds available for reaction?

Then, of course, there is the question of what we mean by a check
list. Is it a piece of laminated card which we take out of its pouch
and work through? Or is it just an acronym - in which case, how long
can it reasonably be? I've had people recommenend a downwind
WWULFSSTALL check - by the time you've done that lot you could have
landed the bloody thing, derigged it and started dinner.

Ian

* NARSTI: Nose down, Assess, Release Cable, Speed check, Trimmer set,
somethingbeginningwith I

On 15 Dec, 14:14, Martin Gregorie wrote:

Dymotape "WUF" (or whatever your acronym of choice is) onto the panel?

Or just a picture of a dog?

Now, if somebody could come up with a good acronym for a dry, unflapped
glider.... ULT (Undercarriage, Lookout, Trim) is about all I can come up
with.

U

You shouldn't need a checklist for Lookout and Trim...

Ian

On 16 Dec, 08:44, 309 wrote:

Yup, I've been a dummy: took off once with the static ports still
taped over. ... And statics got added to the
preflight checklist!!!

After you use a checklist for a while, you'll find that they're
terrific security blankets, and help you relax more during the
flight.

Security blankets are not necessarily a Good Thing. After all, it
seems you may have missed your taped over static ports because they
weren't on your check list ... what's going to be next? Not that I'm
knocking the whole idea, you understand - I have a nice laminated list
of rigging and derigging stuff.

The pros fly with checklists. The FAA condones the discipline. Many
accident investigation reports cite, as one of the causes, the crew's
failure to follow the appropriate checklist.

The pros are flying vastly more complicated aircraft and have vastly
more time available to read checklists.

Ian

Ian wrote:


The pros are flying vastly more complicated aircraft...

True, though the pilot/aircraft interface gets simpler all the
time--until you get to the programming part.



...and have vastly more time available to read checklists.

False. Though we may have a crew to share the load, it takes more time
to work with a crew. The time available to provide a solution is often
inversely related to the size of the problem.

In single-seat aircraft you are generally going very fast, have even
more complexity, and often feel that you don't have enough hands to do
all the things that need to be done in the time available, which can be
so short as to seem virtually non-existent. That's why there are
ejection seats--wonderful "zero/zero" rocket-powered seats.

If the above sounds to some like an argument against reliance on
checklists, in fact my position is that checklists must be first and
foremost practical--short, sufficient, and sometimes memorized--but they
should always be used.

Checklists work, and AOA works. Though the use of each must be adapted
to the ship, the mission, and the circumstances, I suspect those who
avoid or deride either one do so for their own emotional reasons and not
out of a real understanding of their value.


Jack

On 16 Dec, 11:28, J a c k wrote:
Ian wrote:
...and have vastly more time available to read checklists.

False. Though we may have a crew to share the load, it takes more time
to work with a crew. The time available to provide a solution is often
inversely related to the size of the problem.

The pros flying commercial jets /do/ have more time to deal with check
lists because (a) the person flying the aircraft doesn't necessarily
have to have anything to do with the checklisting (b) they have
autopilots and (c) they don't need to look out.

I'm basing this on a few jump seat trips (in the Good Old Days), but I
have never had time in a glider to take my hands off the controls,
focus wholly on the inside of the cockpit and go through a seventeen
point check list...

Incidentally, you say that "checklists ... should alway be used". Do
you have a checklist for joining thermals? For thermal centring? For
stall recovery? For dolphin flying?

Ian

Pete, what does the mnenomic TWA stand for?

-John

On Dec 16, 3:44 am, 309 wrote:
Keep the mnemonics (USTALL, TWA, GUMP) as safety nets.

I spoke to a doctor who recently attended a medical seminar during which
cockpit communications between pilot/copilot/engineer were used to
demonstrate the hazards of misused terminology and too much deference to
authority during incidents and accidents.


"Cats" wrote in message
...
On Dec 15, 7:50 pm, Tom Gardner wrote:
On Dec 14, 3:52 pm, jeplane wrote:

Well, I'll be the one who didn't get it.
This article is about intensive care, and how in modern times,
medicine does wonders.
But what does that has to do with soaring?

I think the parallels for 1,2,3 (below) between hospitals and gliding
are obvious.

1) experienced, highly skilled, and highly self confident people
2) those people doing similar (but slightly different) tasks over and
over again
3) unnecessarily high Bad Things happening

After...
a) introducing *multiple* checklists, one for each task
b) providing an atmosphere in which *everybody* *checked* the highly
skilled people followed the checklists every time
c) actually following the checklists
...Bad Things almost completely stopped happening

Overall, it was a well written article, unfortunately spread over 8
pages

One of the key things seemed to be empowering the nurses to prompt the
doctors where necessary - they often knew the doctors were not
following the procedure but for various reasons didn't intervene. (In
fact I read it that they ended up with a 'checklist' nurse who checked
it all on a clipboard as the procedure was executed) The same occurs
on the flight deck - there have been accidents with commercial traffic
where the FO has realised something is wrong and either not told the
PIC or been overruled. The same attitude of humility is needed there,
and of course in a 2-seat glider.