CFIs

Where are the CFIs?
Without enough good CFIs... the number of new soaring pilots will
decline.
A potential CFI asked me what is the first requirement to become a
CFI? Perhaps I didn't think of the FARs, but my answer was; "You need
a strong desire to teach".

Some CFIs need to build flying time to get an ATP job. Some cannot
afford to fly at all, so they fly as CFIs just to enjoy the life of
flying. Most glider sites are remote from city life, and offer less
attractions to young pilots as a full time job.

Glider sites cannot afford the real estate costs of nearby city life.
Most cannot offer housing that is affordable. A well paid glider CFI
earns more per hour than a comparable SEL instructor is paid, but
where can he live? Where is life?...(females)

Instructor pay is the smallest part of a students cost to learn to
fly. Good clubs, for example; TSA south of Fort Worth, seems to have
solved the problem.

The top pay or cost to the student for an instructor runs about $57
per hour. A popular instructor, flying at a good operation may earn
about $32,000 per year. An Auto mechanic at a dealers shop will do
much better.

Where are the instructors? Fred

"fredsez" wrote in message
...
Where are the CFIs?
Without enough good CFIs... the number of new soaring pilots will
decline.
A potential CFI asked me what is the first requirement to become a
CFI? Perhaps I didn't think of the FARs, but my answer was; "You need
a strong desire to teach".

Some CFIs need to build flying time to get an ATP job. Some cannot
afford to fly at all, so they fly as CFIs just to enjoy the life of
flying. Most glider sites are remote from city life, and offer less
attractions to young pilots as a full time job.

Glider sites cannot afford the real estate costs of nearby city life.
Most cannot offer housing that is affordable. A well paid glider CFI
earns more per hour than a comparable SEL instructor is paid, but
where can he live? Where is life?...(females)

Instructor pay is the smallest part of a students cost to learn to
fly. Good clubs, for example; TSA south of Fort Worth, seems to have
solved the problem.

The top pay or cost to the student for an instructor runs about $57
per hour. A popular instructor, flying at a good operation may earn
about $32,000 per year. An Auto mechanic at a dealers shop will do
much better.

Where are the instructors? Fred


Fred, I think I know part of the answer.

There are many pilots who hold an instructor certificate and for whom the
pay is not an issue but they don't teach. There are many reasons but one
that comes up a lot is that they absolutely hate the back seat of a 2-33.
I'm no longer willing to risk my back in one.

If there were a more attractive, more comfortable trainer, at least some of
these instructors would become active.

Bill Daniels

I think the problem goes all the way back to manufacturers and cost of
soaring as it is not ´paid´sport and FAI. As Bill said lot of
instructors would fly more, if the óffice´ is nicer. But cost of a
desent (good) 2-seater is huge. Not many operation can buy those
(except Gavin . When you take the cost of glider and try to add
instructor´s salary on top of it, the formula is pretty impossible
(except for Gavin . And soaring is not a ´top´ sport which draws new
young students. Can anyone think another sport that the cost of
equipment is as high as in soaring and if you are world number 1,
you'll be paid NADA Hopefully this new GP format will turn the next
page. Finally a good desision from FAI side. Finally...

PS



On 29 joulu, 17:13, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:
"fredsez" wrote in message

...

Where are the CFIs?
Without enough good CFIs... the number of new soaring pilots will
decline.
A potential CFI asked me what is the first requirement to become a
CFI? Perhaps I didn't think of the FARs, but my answer was; "You need
a strong desire to teach".

Some CFIs need to build flying time to get an ATP job. Some cannot
afford to fly at all, so they fly as CFIs just to enjoy the life of
flying. Most glider sites are remote from city life, and offer less
attractions to young pilots as a full time job.

Glider sites cannot afford the real estate costs of nearby city life.
Most cannot offer housing that is affordable. A well paid glider CFI
earns more per hour than a comparable SEL instructor is paid, but
where can he live? Where is life?...(females)

Instructor pay is the smallest part of a students cost to learn to
fly. Good clubs, for example; TSA south of Fort Worth, seems to have
solved the problem.

The top pay or cost to the student for an instructor runs about $57
per hour. A popular instructor, flying at a good operation may earn
about $32,000 per year. An Auto mechanic at a dealers shop will do
much better.




Where are the instructors? Fred

Fred, I think I know part of the answer.

There are many pilots who hold an instructor certificate and for whom the
pay is not an issue but they don't teach. There are many reasons but one
that comes up a lot is that they absolutely hate the back seat of a 2-33.
I'm no longer willing to risk my back in one.

If there were a more attractive, more comfortable trainer, at least some of
these instructors would become active.

Bill Daniels

On 12/29/07 9:16 AM, in article
,
"
wrote:

I think the problem goes all the way back to manufacturers and cost of
soaring as it is not ´paid´sport and FAI. As Bill said lot of
instructors would fly more, if the óffice´ is nicer. But cost of a
desent (good) 2-seater is huge. Not many operation can buy those
(except Gavin . When you take the cost of glider and try to add
instructor´s salary on top of it, the formula is pretty impossible
(except for Gavin . And soaring is not a ´top´ sport which draws new
young students. Can anyone think another sport that the cost of
equipment is as high as in soaring and if you are world number 1,
you'll be paid NADA Hopefully this new GP format will turn the next
page. Finally a good desision from FAI side. Finally...

PS



On 29 joulu, 17:13, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:
"fredsez" wrote in message

...

Where are the CFIs?
Without enough good CFIs... the number of new soaring pilots will
decline.
A potential CFI asked me what is the first requirement to become a
CFI? Perhaps I didn't think of the FARs, but my answer was; "You need
a strong desire to teach".

Some CFIs need to build flying time to get an ATP job. Some cannot
afford to fly at all, so they fly as CFIs just to enjoy the life of
flying. Most glider sites are remote from city life, and offer less
attractions to young pilots as a full time job.

Glider sites cannot afford the real estate costs of nearby city life.
Most cannot offer housing that is affordable. A well paid glider CFI
earns more per hour than a comparable SEL instructor is paid, but
where can he live? Where is life?...(females)

Instructor pay is the smallest part of a students cost to learn to
fly. Good clubs, for example; TSA south of Fort Worth, seems to have
solved the problem.

The top pay or cost to the student for an instructor runs about $57
per hour. A popular instructor, flying at a good operation may earn
about $32,000 per year. An Auto mechanic at a dealers shop will do
much better.




Where are the instructors? Fred

Fred, I think I know part of the answer.

There are many pilots who hold an instructor certificate and for whom the
pay is not an issue but they don't teach. There are many reasons but one
that comes up a lot is that they absolutely hate the back seat of a 2-33.
I'm no longer willing to risk my back in one.

If there were a more attractive, more comfortable trainer, at least some of
these instructors would become active.

Bill Daniels


My own view only, everyone else may have a completely different perspective
for which I have enormous respect.

I am in a club which bends over backwards with incentives for the towpilots
(and are discussing more incentives), but gives no incentives at all for
instructors. I am a CFIG who chooses to donate the instructor fees to the
Club, but I get no break on dues or personal tow fees. I also pay to attend
FIRC's and if I want instructors insurance, that's out of pocket, too.

No offense to the students, without whom our sport wouldn't survive, but for
the CFIG getting a student is like acquiring the Albatross from Coleridge's
Rime of the Ancient Mariner. Naturally the student wants to fly, and the
student wants to fly during the good times of the year, and at the good
times of the day (when thermals are likely). Thus, the CFIG's personal
flying in their own ship becomes either very limited (when the student is
not available), or guilt-ridden.

So, in the zero-sum game of investing of the limited time I have available
for soaring, I lose in multiple ways when I am an active instructor.

So, personal opinion only, I am very selective about what instruction I will
provide, because I like to fly. Does that make sense?

Respectfully,
Bullwinkle

p.s. By the way, I also hate the back seat of the 2-33, for the same reason
Bill does. Some of us aren't getting any younger, any more limber, or any
lighter.

So, what are the options? Continue the death spiral we're in or work toward
a solution?

Modern glider trainers are hideously expensive compared to anything that
preceeded them but not so much so when compared to the airplane trainers on
the other side of the airport. A big difference is the training airplanes
get in more revenue hours per day so their capital costs can be spread
across more hours reducing the rental rate.

The solution for gliders is the same. Increase revenue hours by using
winches. This re-jiggers the finances so some of the cash flow that went
to the tug goes to support expensive trainers. This opens the door to
digging out of the hole we're in with decades old, worn out, ugly trainers.

Winches increase flying by reducing student costs yet provides cash for new
trainers.
New trainers and winches attract instructors and new students.
Increased activity pays for the new gliders and the winch.
The beauty is that if done right, there is no net increase in costs.

As many will hasten to point out, this is not a instant 'magic' solution but
is is a path that leads to one. It requires re-thinking of how we do
things. It requires a lot of work. It requires some faith that it will
work out for the better.

This can't be implemented instantly. It's a journey more than a
destination. But the first step is to begin the process by shifting some
training to winch launch. Even this is a process. We have to train
instructors in winch launch. We have to find airfields, we have to buy or
build winches...

If we are going to save this sport, we have a lot of work to do. We're
going to have to re-invent ourselves.

Bill Daniels


wrote in message
...
I think the problem goes all the way back to manufacturers and cost of
soaring as it is not ´paid´sport and FAI. As Bill said lot of
instructors would fly more, if the óffice´ is nicer. But cost of a
desent (good) 2-seater is huge. Not many operation can buy those
(except Gavin . When you take the cost of glider and try to add
instructor´s salary on top of it, the formula is pretty impossible
(except for Gavin . And soaring is not a ´top´ sport which draws new
young students. Can anyone think another sport that the cost of
equipment is as high as in soaring and if you are world number 1,
you'll be paid NADA Hopefully this new GP format will turn the next
page. Finally a good desision from FAI side. Finally...

PS



On 29 joulu, 17:13, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:
"fredsez" wrote in message

...

Where are the CFIs?
Without enough good CFIs... the number of new soaring pilots will
decline.
A potential CFI asked me what is the first requirement to become a
CFI? Perhaps I didn't think of the FARs, but my answer was; "You need
a strong desire to teach".

Some CFIs need to build flying time to get an ATP job. Some cannot
afford to fly at all, so they fly as CFIs just to enjoy the life of
flying. Most glider sites are remote from city life, and offer less
attractions to young pilots as a full time job.

Glider sites cannot afford the real estate costs of nearby city life.
Most cannot offer housing that is affordable. A well paid glider CFI
earns more per hour than a comparable SEL instructor is paid, but
where can he live? Where is life?...(females)

Instructor pay is the smallest part of a students cost to learn to
fly. Good clubs, for example; TSA south of Fort Worth, seems to have
solved the problem.

The top pay or cost to the student for an instructor runs about $57
per hour. A popular instructor, flying at a good operation may earn
about $32,000 per year. An Auto mechanic at a dealers shop will do
much better.




Where are the instructors? Fred

Fred, I think I know part of the answer.

There are many pilots who hold an instructor certificate and for whom the
pay is not an issue but they don't teach. There are many reasons but one
that comes up a lot is that they absolutely hate the back seat of a 2-33.
I'm no longer willing to risk my back in one.

If there were a more attractive, more comfortable trainer, at least some
of
these instructors would become active.

Bill Daniels

At 17:06 29 December 2007, Bill Daniels wrote:
So, what are the options? Continue the death spiral
we're in or work
toward
a solution?

Modern glider trainers are hideously expensive compared
to anything
that
preceeded them but not so much so when compared to
the airplane
trainers on
the other side of the airport. A big difference is
the training airplanes
get in more revenue hours per day so their capital
costs can be spread
across more hours reducing the rental rate.

The solution for gliders is the same. Increase revenue
hours by using
winches. This re-jiggers the finances so some of the
cash flow that
went
to the tug goes to support expensive trainers. This
opens the door to
digging out of the hole we're in with decades old,
worn out, ugly
trainers.

Winches increase flying by reducing student costs yet
provides cash for
new
trainers.
New trainers and winches attract instructors and new
students.
Increased activity pays for the new gliders and the
winch.
The beauty is that if done right, there is no net increase
in costs.

As many will hasten to point out, this is not a instant
'magic' solution
but
is is a path that leads to one. It requires re-thinking
of how we do
things. It requires a lot of work. It requires some
faith that it will
work out for the better.

This can't be implemented instantly. It's a journey
more than a
destination. But the first step is to begin the process
by shifting some
training to winch launch. Even this is a process.
We have to train
instructors in winch launch. We have to find airfields,
we have to buy
or
build winches...

If we are going to save this sport, we have a lot of
work to do. We're
going to have to re-invent ourselves.

Bill Daniels

The 2-33 doesn't have to die. In a well marketed winch
launch
operation a 2-33 could be used as a single seat fun
ride for
experienced pilots, especially if you have a winch
launch
operation that can do very high launches. A new pilot
with low
flight time could take a friend for a thrill ride and
let them use
the back seat. Just do introductory rides and flight
training
in a nice glass ship.

Steve Davis wrote:
The 2-33 doesn't have to die. In a well marketed winch
launch operation a 2-33 could be used as a single seat fun
ride for experienced pilots, especially if you have a winch
launch operation that can do very high launches. A new
pilot with low flight time could take a friend for a thrill ride
and let them use the back seat. Just do introductory rides
and flight training in a nice glass ship.

I learned to fly in a 2-33. I was only rode in the back twice but didn't
find it uncomfortable. The 2-33 gets so much bad press. Why? I flew the
Grob, too, but always felt more "at home" in the 2-33. Maybe it's just
what you get used to? Took my sis-in-law for a ride in the 2-33 after
getting my license, and she said it was an "E-ticket ride", so I guess
you're right, but I was never that uncomfortable in it.

Slightly O/T but I'm curious: in the UK all instructors are volunteers
and instruct for free. The courses required to become an instructor
are cheap so there's little cost (if any if the club pays, which they
often do) involved in becoming one.

Is it different in the states? How does it work over there?


Dan

On Dec 29, 4:30*pm, Dan G wrote:
Slightly O/T but I'm curious: in the UK all instructors are volunteers
and instruct for free. The courses required to become an instructor
are cheap so there's little cost *(if any if the club pays, which they
often do) involved in becoming one.

Is it different in the states? How does it work over there?

Dan

Hi Dan,

By and large, glider instructors over here (in the States) earn their
CFI-G on their own. By that, I mean there are very few organized
"instructor training" courses. Some of the larger clubs have the
resources and talent to provide formal training, but at most
locations, it's up to the individual. The existing instructors will
help with the requisite dual and sign offs for written and practical
tests, but the costs (tows, testing, books, etc.) are typically born
by the aspiring instructor. Note I said "typically"; I'm sure there
are a few good exceptions.

One other big difference is that some fairly significant percentage of
the soaring done in the States is done from a commercial operation.
In these settings, there's very little incentive for the new CFI-G to
emerge. They have to pay for tows and rent the glider to build up
hours, and they would have to pay the existing CFI-G for the
instruction toward the rating. Despite the glamorous lifestyle and
high pay, it's not something that most young guns would go after. If
they're interested in an airline job, they'll get their ASEL followed
by their Instrument and Instructor ratings and build up hours that
way.

Thinking in terms of the club/commercial operation where I fly, I can
think of only one new CFI-G being minted in the last 10 years, and
this is at a moderately large operation. Obviously, it's not a
sustainable model...

Erik Mann

On Dec 29, 9:30*pm, Dan G wrote:
Slightly O/T but I'm curious: in the UK all instructors are volunteers
and instruct for free. The courses required to become an instructor
are cheap so there's little cost *(if any if the club pays, which they
often do) involved in becoming one.

Is it different in the states? How does it work over there?

Dan

The BGA courses might not be very expensive but the necessary flying
beforehand almost certainly is.