I learned about flying from this, too...

Dallas wrote:
On Tue, 5 Feb 2008 07:49:29 -0800 (PST), Ricky wrote:

I'd be curious to know how many actually carry around the checklist
outside while preflighting?

I do.

I'm the only guy I've ever seen using one. But, it's not that big of a
deal for me.. I make my own checklist and slide it into a plastic sheet
protector. This makes it something you can tuck into your waistband while
you check the oil etc... not like a big plastic card.


I did when I first started flying then like many stopped. When I later
got my helicopter rating there were so many things to check you pretty
much couldn't do it with out a written list (well at least I couldn't)
and got back in the habit and do it for fixed wing now as well.

On Tue, 5 Feb 2008 07:31:04 -0800 (PST), Ricky wrote:

Actually, additional mistakes were not knowing the weather well enough
to know there were thunderstorms on the way

I swore I'd never be rushed into getting an airplane into the air, but real
life proved me wrong.

I was renting an airplane at a new FBO and getting ready to fly with
instructor for the checkride. I did it at my own pace. Engine running,
the airplane failed the radio check.

Suddenly, everything turned into a rush... they pulled out another
airplane (a different model that I was less familiar with) and told me that
we had 45 minutes before it was rented to someone else. The instructor did
a bit of outside preflight and I didn't check his work. We rushed through
everything so I could drop him off and pick up my passenger.

Looking back, I was amazed how easily I could break my own rule. I trusted
the competence of someone I didn't know with my life and made assumptions
that everything would be alright.

I shall endeavor to walk away rather than do anything like that again.

--
Dallas

On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:26:26 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

I did when I first started flying then like many stopped.

I suspect it's a bit of a badge of honor to not use an outside checklist.

--
Dallas

Ricky wrote:



SO - don't skip the little steps in your preflight, the ones that we
sometimes deem less important. Up until that point, I sometimes did
not check the prop. Now I consider it one of the more vital preflight
items! Don't get so rushed that safety is compromised in any way.
You've probably heard that the pressure to get to your destination
("get-home-itis") can be, and sometimes is, a fatal one.

Ricky

As I read your post, I was thinking that "mistake #1" was not tying down
the aircraft in the first place. IMHO, tying down a light plane that
will be out of sight for any length of time, especially overnight, is a
given. Thanks for your post.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
Larry Dighera wrote in
:

On Tue, 5 Feb 2008 07:49:29 -0800 (PST), Ricky
wrote in
:

On Feb 5, 9:27 am, Larry Dighera wrote:
I realize you were just a student pilot at the time, but I find it
curious that the word checklist is not mentioned anywhere in your
article.

A checklist is/was used most of the time, possibly skipped if in a
hurry as I was.

If you consider, that being hurried is a reasonable an excuse for
reducing safety standards, that is your decision (not mine).

For me, the issues is not so much the size of the aircraft as it is
the height above the ground. :-)




You're an idiot. It's official.

Have you looked in the mirror recently? :-)




Bertie

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...


I realize you were just a student pilot at the time, but I find it
curious that the word checklist is not mentioned anywhere in your
article.

I have never taught, nor been taught, to hold the checklist in hand when
doing a preflight. When doing your preflight, you have a huge memory aid in
front of you; the airplane itself! You should do it the same way every time.
If you get interrupted, don't be shy about backing up a few steps or even
starting over from the start. You are supposed to be giving that airframe your
full attention, you need both hands free to shake things, tweak things, feel
things, climb up on things etc. You certainly should not have a checklist in
one hand and a pencil in the other.

Once in the cockpit, and preferably before you strap in, you should pick up
the checklist and mentally review every item in your preflight looking
especially for omissions.

Vaughn

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in news:1d0b6331-1eff-
:

On Feb 5, 10:32 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Larry Dighera wrote:
On Tue, 5 Feb 2008 07:49:29 -0800 (PST), Ricky
wrote in
f9b216b8-7765-46af-b887-5ad76d2e2...
@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:

On Feb 5, 9:27 am, Larry Dighera wrote:
I realize you were just a student pilot at the time, but I find
it
curious that the word checklist is not mentioned anywhere in your
article.
A checklist is/was used most of the time, possibly skipped if in a
hurry as I was.

If you consider, that being hurried is a reasonable an excuse for
reducing safety standards, that is your decision (not mine).
That's
how an FAA Inspector would view it in the hopefully unlikely event
he
was given the opportunity. It's best to consider his point of view
when making decisions, IMHO.

Even now, I find myself not using a checklist sometimes for
preflight
once I get to know a plane.

External pre-flight inspection is rather awkward holding a
checklist.
Fortunately, it's much the same for all aircraft, with the
exception
of equipment unique to a particular aircraft type. There may be 13
fuel system drain points, or a fuel sump drain lever under the
right
rear seat, but they all have Pitot systems, controls, engines,
wheels,
breaks, ...

For nearly all other phases of operation, I find a checklist
useful;
in fact I would feel vulnerable without it. Old-hands will tell
you
that the 'flow' method of preflighting is superior, but I find a
written checklist is able to provide specific information that
would
be lacking otherwise. A pre-landing GUMPS check is the minimum for
that phase of flight.

You can find a copy of my checklist he
http://freechecklists.net/dl/pa28235checklist.pdf

http://freechecklists.net/

It's easy to get complacent, especially with a small Cessna.

For me, the issues is not so much the size of the aircraft as it is
the height above the ground. :-)

I'd be curious to know how many actually carry around the
checklist
outside while preflighting?

Ricky

[rec.aviation.student added]

There is absolutely no reason why a written checklist has to deviate
from a flow pattern, and indeed, a well written checklist will follow
a
flow pattern. If it doesn't, I suggest re-writing it so it does.
I recommend using a written checklist all the time; the exterior
inspection included.

Agreed! Even driving a car I walk around for
tires, clean windows, do seat, mirrors, check
fuel gauge, radio station settings, seat belt and
that's a simple list.

When launching Ballistic Missiles, we have a
Range Officer pump out a tape recording of what
to do in sequence so it's mainly audio with the
check-list in the RO's hands.
We'd have built in holds, where we play Major
Tom, it's very cool.

That's actually a good idea for a simple pilot.


Good God.



Bertie

On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 01:34:56 GMT, Vaughn Simon wrote:

I have never taught, nor been taught, to hold the checklist in hand when
doing a preflight. When doing your preflight, you have a huge memory aid in
front of you; the airplane itself! You should do it the same way every time.
If you get interrupted, don't be shy about backing up a few steps or even
starting over from the start. You are supposed to be giving that airframe your
full attention, you need both hands free to shake things, tweak things, feel
things, climb up on things etc. You certainly should not have a checklist in
one hand and a pencil in the other.

Thanks for this. Sounds like sex...and well it should.
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!

On Feb 5, 10:04 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in news:1d0b6331-1eff-
:

On Feb 5, 10:32 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Larry Dighera wrote:
On Tue, 5 Feb 2008 07:49:29 -0800 (PST), Ricky
wrote in
f9b216b8-7765-46af-b887-5ad76d2e2...

@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:





On Feb 5, 9:27 am, Larry Dighera wrote:
I realize you were just a student pilot at the time, but I find
it
curious that the word checklist is not mentioned anywhere in your
article.
A checklist is/was used most of the time, possibly skipped if in a
hurry as I was.

If you consider, that being hurried is a reasonable an excuse for
reducing safety standards, that is your decision (not mine).
That's
how an FAA Inspector would view it in the hopefully unlikely event
he
was given the opportunity. It's best to consider his point of view
when making decisions, IMHO.

Even now, I find myself not using a checklist sometimes for
preflight
once I get to know a plane.

External pre-flight inspection is rather awkward holding a
checklist.
Fortunately, it's much the same for all aircraft, with the
exception
of equipment unique to a particular aircraft type. There may be 13
fuel system drain points, or a fuel sump drain lever under the
right
rear seat, but they all have Pitot systems, controls, engines,
wheels,
breaks, ...

For nearly all other phases of operation, I find a checklist
useful;
in fact I would feel vulnerable without it. Old-hands will tell
you
that the 'flow' method of preflighting is superior, but I find a
written checklist is able to provide specific information that
would
be lacking otherwise. A pre-landing GUMPS check is the minimum for
that phase of flight.

You can find a copy of my checklist he
http://freechecklists.net/dl/pa28235checklist.pdf

http://freechecklists.net/

It's easy to get complacent, especially with a small Cessna.

For me, the issues is not so much the size of the aircraft as it is
the height above the ground. :-)

I'd be curious to know how many actually carry around the
checklist
outside while preflighting?

Ricky

[rec.aviation.student added]

There is absolutely no reason why a written checklist has to deviate
from a flow pattern, and indeed, a well written checklist will follow
a
flow pattern. If it doesn't, I suggest re-writing it so it does.
I recommend using a written checklist all the time; the exterior
inspection included.

Agreed! Even driving a car I walk around for
tires, clean windows, do seat, mirrors, check
fuel gauge, radio station settings, seat belt and
that's a simple list.

When launching Ballistic Missiles, we have a
Range Officer pump out a tape recording of what
to do in sequence so it's mainly audio with the
check-list in the RO's hands.
We'd have built in holds, where we play Major
Tom, it's very cool.

That's actually a good idea for a simple pilot.

Good God.
Bertie

For a pilot, it's like a WalkMan do-dad check-list.
You know, kick the tires, bleed some gas and
check for condensated H20, prop check... and

NOW THE BIGGY,

review the runway.

Now here's where our little bertie jumps up and
asks "why Ken?". So I says to "bertie", bertie,
(that's what I call bertie), how do you wreck a
Concorde?

The USN carrier procedure is to review the flight
deck prior to every flight, suckin' up a washer is
not fun, a nut is worse (no offense bertie).

It's a ****-up that the Concorde pilot whose
plane dislodged runway debris, failed to review
his runway and killed himself, all his passengers
and destroyed an expensive A/C.

If that pilot had followed his check-list...well,
things would have been better, the aircraft
would have done a routine flight, the debris
would have been removed prior to take-off.

I mentioned previously, I walk the runways,
(with controller permission), to ascertain
quality and remove debris, i'm a bit tight but
I'll skid a shoe on it to get a friction feel, in
case of some need for a cross wind adherence,
at touch down.

One ****ing check-list mistake splashed a
Concorde.
Ken

On Feb 6, 3:03*am, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
On Feb 5, 10:04 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:





"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in news:1d0b6331-1eff-
:

On Feb 5, 10:32 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Larry Dighera wrote:
On Tue, 5 Feb 2008 07:49:29 -0800 (PST), Ricky
wrote in
f9b216b8-7765-46af-b887-5ad76d2e2...

@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:

On Feb 5, 9:27 am, Larry Dighera wrote:
I realize you were just a student pilot at the time, but I find
it
curious that the word checklist is not mentioned anywhere in your
article.
A checklist is/was used most of the time, possibly skipped if in a
hurry as I was.

If you consider, that being hurried is a reasonable an excuse for
reducing safety standards, that is your decision (not mine).
That's
how an FAA Inspector would view it in the hopefully unlikely event
he
was given the opportunity. *It's best to consider his point of view
when making decisions, IMHO.

Even now, I find myself not using a checklist sometimes for
preflight
once I get to know a plane.

External pre-flight inspection is rather awkward holding a
checklist.
Fortunately, it's much the same for all aircraft, with the
exception
of equipment unique to a particular aircraft type. *There may be 13
fuel system drain points, or a fuel sump drain lever under the
right
rear seat, but they all have Pitot systems, controls, engines,
wheels,
breaks, ...

For nearly all other phases of operation, I find a checklist
useful;
in fact I would feel vulnerable without it. *Old-hands will tell
you
that the 'flow' method of preflighting is superior, but I find a
written checklist is able to provide specific information that
would
be lacking otherwise. *A pre-landing GUMPS check is the minimum for
that phase of flight.

You can find a copy of my checklist he
http://freechecklists.net/dl/pa28235checklist.pdf

http://freechecklists.net/

It's easy to get complacent, especially with a small Cessna.

For me, the issues is not so much the size of the aircraft as it is
the height above the ground. *:-)

I'd be curious to know how many actually carry around the
checklist
outside while preflighting?

Ricky

[rec.aviation.student added]

There is absolutely no reason why a written checklist has to deviate
from a flow pattern, and indeed, a well written checklist will follow
a
flow pattern. If it doesn't, I suggest re-writing it so it does.
I recommend using a written checklist all the time; the exterior
inspection included.

Agreed! Even driving a car I walk around for
tires, clean windows, do seat, *mirrors, check
fuel gauge, radio station settings, seat belt and
that's a simple list.

When launching Ballistic Missiles, we have a
Range Officer pump out a tape recording of what
to do in sequence so it's mainly audio with the
check-list in the RO's hands.
We'd have built in holds, where we play Major
Tom, it's very cool.

That's actually a good idea for a simple pilot.

Good God.
Bertie

For a pilot, it's like a WalkMan do-dad check-list.
You know, kick the tires, bleed some gas and
check for condensated H20, prop check... and

NOW THE BIGGY,

review the runway.

Now here's where our little bertie jumps up and
asks "why Ken?". So I says to "bertie", bertie,
(that's what I call bertie), how do you wreck a
Concorde?

The USN carrier procedure is to review the flight
deck prior to every flight, suckin' up a washer is
not fun, a nut is worse (no offense bertie).

It's a ****-up that the Concorde pilot whose
plane dislodged runway debris, failed to review
his runway and killed himself, all his passengers
and destroyed an expensive A/C.

If that pilot had followed his check-list...well,
things would have been better, the aircraft
would have done a routine flight, the debris
would have been removed prior to take-off.

I mentioned previously, I walk the runways,
(with controller permission), to ascertain
quality and remove debris, i'm a bit tight but
I'll skid a shoe on it to get a friction feel, in
case of some need for a cross wind adherence,
at touch down.

One ****ing check-list mistake splashed a
Concorde.
Ken- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wow, you have got to be kidding me. You walk the runway prior to
every flight like the US NAVY? Do you drive up to your destination
airport and walk that runway prior to your flight's arrival too?

Wil