Discovery Flight today...unexpected results

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 22:09:56 -0500, "Peter Dohm"
wrote:

Unless the wind was nearly straight down the runway, that much wind could
very easily exceed the demonstrated crosswind component for landing--and
there are some considerations for taxiing as well. What type of aircraft
was used?

Also...wind was at 18 from 309, but we WERE taking off from runway 31.
Pretty good gust of wind I'd say around 50-100 AGL after takeoff from
left to right that had me pretty scared.

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 03:43:39 GMT, "Mike Isaksen"
wrote:

Do you really mean that the shoulder belts weren't used?

I can not imagine doing stall demos without lap belts. It is something ANY
pilot would notice. It is even a requirement on your Flight Test to brief
the examiner (as though they were your passenger) and make sure their belt
is secured.

Beltless. He did a climb stall at about 2800ft. Basically drew the
throttle down to idle until it got down to about 40 and the thing
started shaking. He then recovered. But no belts were used...they
were forgotten by us both. He did apologize for forgetting, but it
did strike me as odd that he didn't use a checklist.

Honestly, I only know one other pilot (and he uses checklists and
writes things down religiously)...for all I knew this was just
something pilots did. At this stage I'm as green as can be. I do
know enough about flying to where I should have known better though. I
will be going to a different instructor next time and will insist on
discussing my experience before commencing the next round of lessons.

DGS wrote:
Another thing that left a bad taste in my mouth. After the flight was
over and we'd taxied back to the hanger he was climbing out of the
plane and realized he didn't have his seatbelt fastened. He laughed
about the fact that he had forgotten to do so. As I then followed him
out of the plane I realized that I hadn't had mine fastened either. He
then apologized for forgetting to have either of us do so, but I could
tell that it didn't really bother him. I dunno, I guess it's not a
big deal, but I really kind of want someone who maybe takes it all a
little more seriously.

He was in violation of FAR 91.107 "Use of safety belts, shoulder harnesses,
and child restraint systems":

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....2.4.4&idno=14

Were I in your position I'd look to using another instructor.

DGS wrote:

Another thing that left a bad taste in my mouth. After the flight was
over and we'd taxied back to the hanger he was climbing out of the
plane and realized he didn't have his seatbelt fastened. He laughed
about the fact that he had forgotten to do so. As I then followed him
out of the plane I realized that I hadn't had mine fastened either. He
then apologized for forgetting to have either of us do so, but I could
tell that it didn't really bother him. I dunno, I guess it's not a
big deal, but I really kind of want someone who maybe takes it all a
little more seriously.

Now that you have come out with a more details about this
guy I think its clear that he is not the kind of guy you
should be looking for.

I am sorry you had to be exposed to someone like that for
your first introductory flight and it reflects poorly on
the rest of us who do follow the rules and put a priority
on giving their students the best training they can.

Talk to some other instructors you'll soon run accross some
good ones. Good luck.

On 2008-02-11, DGS wrote:
First I plan on calling another FBO at the same airport and talking to
one of their instructors first.

Here's something that should be stressed: You're about to hire this guy to
teach you how to fly. Interview him. Find out why he's instructing, what his
approach to flying is, how he'd have handled the nervousness you had. Make
sure you're comfortable with the guy before you ever climb in the cockpit
with him.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

"Peter Dohm" wrote in message


If you have the same problem that I do, and sometimes have a little
difficulty recalling seldom used words, you might consider a brief
page of crib notes at the back of your check list--at a towered
airport, where you are confused about the taxi route, the
nomenclature (IIRC) is "sequenced instructions" and an airport
diagram is a nearly indispensable asset as well.

"Progressive taxi" has worked well for me.

--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/blogs/TknoFlyer
http://sage1solutions.com/products
NEW! FlyteBalance v2.0 (W&B); FlyteLog v2.0 (Logbook)
____________________

Jim Logajan wrote:
DGS wrote:
Another thing that left a bad taste in my mouth. After the flight was
over and we'd taxied back to the hanger he was climbing out of the
plane and realized he didn't have his seatbelt fastened. He laughed
about the fact that he had forgotten to do so. As I then followed him
out of the plane I realized that I hadn't had mine fastened either. He
then apologized for forgetting to have either of us do so, but I could
tell that it didn't really bother him. I dunno, I guess it's not a
big deal, but I really kind of want someone who maybe takes it all a
little more seriously.

He was in violation of FAR 91.107 "Use of safety belts, shoulder harnesses,
and child restraint systems":


How in the hell can anybody be so unaware of themselves that they don't realize
their seatbelt isn't buckled? The first bump they hit will float them right out
of the seat. Personally, I prefer to become one with the aircraft. My personal
bugaboo is skipping the shoulder strap when planning normal flight. That's
bitten me on the ass before, too... and yet I still resist because I find it
confining. But the seatbelt? It's the first and last thing I do when
establishing myself in the aircraft.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

"DGS" wrote in message

At that point I essentially broke out into a cold sweat.

The instructor should have recognized this. It's a symptom of stress.
You'd get used to it as a student pilot (learning to fly is a psychological
workout and the sweats just mean your brain is working) but it's not
appropriate to stress somebody out on what is basically a familiarization
flight. Discovery flights are supposed to be fun.

At this point I don't know what to do. I've got the money, and deep
down for years I've wanted to do this. But I know that I can't
continue to be that nervous and continue my lessons.

The nerves go away with experience and confidence. As a student you will
quickly learn that you control the airplane, not the other way around, and
that makes all the difference. But, you'll still sweat from the mental
workout once in awhile during training. It means you've had a full flying
day.

Any feedback or experiences anyone can share?

You don't want that instructor. He might be the best instructor in the city
for other people, but, not for you. Find somebody else, tell them what
happened and get ready for a much greater experience.

-c

On Feb 10, 10:02*pm, "Peter Dohm" wrote:
If you have the same problem that I do, and sometimes have a little
difficulty recalling seldom used words, you might consider a brief page of
crib notes at the back of your check list--at a towered airport, where you
are confused about the taxi route, the nomenclature (IIRC) is "sequenced
instructions"

No, it's called "progressive taxi". It's covered in the AIM, 3-1-18
(Taxiing) b-3:
http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...ns/atpubs/aim/
and also in the Pilot/Controller Glossary:
http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff.../PCG/index.htm
.

Any feedback or experiences anyone can share? *At this point I'm
really torn about trying again, while on the other hand still not
necessarily ready to back down from the challenge. *Does this get
better? *Or worse?

I wouldn't back down . . . it took me a couple of instructors before I
found the right one for me. We all have different ways of learning
and it sounds like this instructor's style does not click with your
style of learning. There's nothing wrong with that, you just need to
find one that does.

Not to mention the fact that as a consumer of a service (flight
instruction) who is about to spend a lot of money learning to fly, you
have every right to shop around around until you find the best
provider of that service.