Ugly Airplanes, pt7 - lysander.jpg (1/1)

"Mitchell Holman" wrote in message
...

Whatever version of the lovely Lizzie is that contraption ?

Jim Hawkins

"Mitchell Holman" wrote in message
...

Interesting. My guess is that it was produced in the Photoshop factory in
Sussex?

Notice the nasty sting in the tail!

Chris

"Chris D" wrote in news:47cc585c$0$26468$afc38c87
@news.optusnet.com.au:


"Mitchell Holman" wrote in message
...

Interesting. My guess is that it was produced in the Photoshop factory in
Sussex?



"The concept of a turret night-fighter version of the Lysander
culminated in the curious "Experimental Aeroplane No. 136". Late
in 1940, a further attempt was made to fit a turret, this time
according to the French Delanne formula. This meant fitting a
second wing in tandem to the main one - effectively a much
enlarged tailplane - with end-plate fins and rudders. The aircraft
became a kind of hybrid, an army-co-operation aircraft with a
"generic" heavy bomber tail unit.

The aircraft underwent trials in the winter of 1940-41. Lysander
K6127 was by now fitted with a Bristol Perseus XII engine. Radical
changes to the rear fuselage enabled a mock-up of a four-gun Nash
& Thompson turret to be installed, made of plywood and perspex and
having a very light framework. The overall length of the aircraft
became 25 feet 7 inches. It was hoped the design would develop into
an effective night-fighter, or at least a gunnery trainer. However,
the Lysander turret night-fighter, despite successful flight trials,
remained a one-off experiment."

http://www.unrealaircraft.com/hybrid.../lysan_mod.php

"Mitchell Holman" wrote in message
...


"The concept of a turret night-fighter version of the Lysander
culminated in the curious "Experimental Aeroplane No. 136". Late
in 1940, a further attempt was made to fit a turret, this time
according to the French Delanne formula. This meant fitting a
second wing in tandem to the main one - effectively a much
enlarged tailplane - with end-plate fins and rudders. The aircraft
became a kind of hybrid, an army-co-operation aircraft with a
"generic" heavy bomber tail unit.

The aircraft underwent trials in the winter of 1940-41. Lysander
K6127 was by now fitted with a Bristol Perseus XII engine. Radical
changes to the rear fuselage enabled a mock-up of a four-gun Nash
& Thompson turret to be installed, made of plywood and perspex and
having a very light framework. The overall length of the aircraft
became 25 feet 7 inches. It was hoped the design would develop into
an effective night-fighter, or at least a gunnery trainer. However,
the Lysander turret night-fighter, despite successful flight trials,
remained a one-off experiment."

http://www.unrealaircraft.com/hybrid.../lysan_mod.php

The first Lysander oddball that you posted is in the book
The Narrow Margin by Wood and Dempster
and the caption underneathstates:

" Many emergency conversions were made to cope with
the dangers of 1940. To provide an aircraft for ground
strafing beach landing areas Westland devised a tande
wing version of the ubiquitous Lysander army-co-op
aircraft with provision in the rear fuselage for s four-
gun Boulton Paul turret. The prototype was flown
successfully but developement was not proceeded with."

When I read the above statement the first time I
didn't find it unbelievable, because at the same time
Tiger Moths were being fitted with bomb carrying
hardware. It rather suggests grasping at straws. I would
rather have the four gun turret at the front to strafe
the beaches.

Your explanation has a greater IMHO probability
of being the more reasonable, but it is always
fun to set the "cat among the pigeons.

Thanks for the second picture of that oddball.
I don't remember having seen that one before.

Robert

"Mitchell Holman" wrote in message
...
"Chris D" wrote in news:47cc585c$0$26468$afc38c87
@news.optusnet.com.au:


"Mitchell Holman" wrote in message
...

Interesting. My guess is that it was produced in the Photoshop factory in
Sussex?


"The concept of a turret night-fighter version of the Lysander
culminated in the curious "Experimental Aeroplane No. 136". Late
in 1940, a further attempt was made to fit a turret, this time
according to the French Delanne formula. This meant fitting a
second wing in tandem to the main one - effectively a much
enlarged tailplane - with end-plate fins and rudders. The aircraft
became a kind of hybrid, an army-co-operation aircraft with a
"generic" heavy bomber tail unit.

The aircraft underwent trials in the winter of 1940-41. Lysander
K6127 was by now fitted with a Bristol Perseus XII engine. Radical
changes to the rear fuselage enabled a mock-up of a four-gun Nash
& Thompson turret to be installed, made of plywood and perspex and
having a very light framework. The overall length of the aircraft
became 25 feet 7 inches. It was hoped the design would develop into
an effective night-fighter, or at least a gunnery trainer. However,
the Lysander turret night-fighter, despite successful flight trials,
remained a one-off experiment."

http://www.unrealaircraft.com/hybrid.../lysan_mod.php

Thanks Mitchell, I would never have believed it was for real. Particularly
with the quality of the first picture. As for a night fighter version that
they were considering. One would have thought the best place for a turret
would been on top. Then the gunner could fire up into enemy aircraft from
below.

"Chris D" wrote in message
u...

"Mitchell Holman" wrote in message
...
"Chris D" wrote in news:47cc585c$0$26468$afc38c87
@news.optusnet.com.au:


"Mitchell Holman" wrote in message
...

Interesting. My guess is that it was produced in the Photoshop factory
in
Sussex?


"The concept of a turret night-fighter version of the Lysander
culminated in the curious "Experimental Aeroplane No. 136". Late
in 1940, a further attempt was made to fit a turret, this time
according to the French Delanne formula. This meant fitting a
second wing in tandem to the main one - effectively a much
enlarged tailplane - with end-plate fins and rudders. The aircraft
became a kind of hybrid, an army-co-operation aircraft with a
"generic" heavy bomber tail unit.

The aircraft underwent trials in the winter of 1940-41. Lysander
K6127 was by now fitted with a Bristol Perseus XII engine. Radical
changes to the rear fuselage enabled a mock-up of a four-gun Nash
& Thompson turret to be installed, made of plywood and perspex and
having a very light framework. The overall length of the aircraft
became 25 feet 7 inches. It was hoped the design would develop into
an effective night-fighter, or at least a gunnery trainer. However,
the Lysander turret night-fighter, despite successful flight trials,
remained a one-off experiment."

http://www.unrealaircraft.com/hybrid.../lysan_mod.php

Thanks Mitchell, I would never have believed it was for real. Particularly
with the quality of the first picture. As for a night fighter version that
they were considering. One would have thought the best place for a turret
would been on top. Then the gunner could fire up into enemy aircraft from
below.

In 1943-45; 90% of heavy bombers were shot down from below the wings.

John B

"John B" wrote in message
...

"Chris D" wrote in message
u...

"Mitchell Holman" wrote in message
...
"Chris D" wrote in news:47cc585c$0$26468$afc38c87
@news.optusnet.com.au:


"Mitchell Holman" wrote in message
...

Interesting. My guess is that it was produced in the Photoshop factory
in
Sussex?


"The concept of a turret night-fighter version of the Lysander
culminated in the curious "Experimental Aeroplane No. 136". Late
in 1940, a further attempt was made to fit a turret, this time
according to the French Delanne formula. This meant fitting a
second wing in tandem to the main one - effectively a much
enlarged tailplane - with end-plate fins and rudders. The aircraft
became a kind of hybrid, an army-co-operation aircraft with a
"generic" heavy bomber tail unit.

The aircraft underwent trials in the winter of 1940-41. Lysander
K6127 was by now fitted with a Bristol Perseus XII engine. Radical
changes to the rear fuselage enabled a mock-up of a four-gun Nash
& Thompson turret to be installed, made of plywood and perspex and
having a very light framework. The overall length of the aircraft
became 25 feet 7 inches. It was hoped the design would develop into
an effective night-fighter, or at least a gunnery trainer. However,
the Lysander turret night-fighter, despite successful flight trials,
remained a one-off experiment."

http://www.unrealaircraft.com/hybrid.../lysan_mod.php

Thanks Mitchell, I would never have believed it was for real.
Particularly with the quality of the first picture. As for a night
fighter version that they were considering. One would have thought the
best place for a turret would been on top. Then the gunner could fire up
into enemy aircraft from below.

In 1943-45; 90% of heavy bombers were shot down from below the wings.

John B

That's what I was think John. But i guess from our point of view it would
seem obvious. But back in 1940 this might not have seemed so obvious.

Regards.....Chris

"John B" wrote in message
...



In 1943-45; 90% of heavy bombers were shot down from below the wings.

Not sure about the percentage, but many Bomber Command a/c were
brought down by Luftwaffe a/c equipped with upward
shooting cannon pointed up at about 70 degrees. They did not
use tracer so these casualties didn't know what hit them.

Schragge Musik!