F-117 to be retired this year

Recently, Gig 601XL Builder posted:

Neil Gould wrote:

Are the missions of the F-117 and F-22 all that similar?


Sure the F22 can do what the F117 can do and defend itself. The only
exception is the ability of the 117 to carry a 2K pound bomb.

F22 Load

Guns: 1× 20 mm (0.787 in) M61A2 Vulcan gatling gun in starboard wing
root, 480 rounds
Air to air loadout:
6× AIM-120 AMRAAM
2× AIM-9 Sidewinder
Air to ground loadout:
2× AIM-120 AMRAAM and
2× AIM-9 Sidewinder and one of the following:
2× 1,000 lb (450 kg) JDAM or
2× Wind Corrected Munitions Dispensers (WCMDs) or
8× 250 lb (110 kg) GBU-39 Small Diameter Bombs


F117 Load

2× internal weapons bays with one hardpoint each (total of two
weapons) equipped to carry:
Bombs:
BLU-109 hardened penetrator
GBU-10 Paveway II laser-guided bomb
GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bomb
GBU-27 Paveway III laser-guided bomb
JDAM INS/GPS guided munition

This doesn't look all that similar to me. The F-117 seems to be a stealth
strike configuration, while the F-22 is also suited to be an air-to-air
fighter, more like a stealthy replacement for the F-16. What am I
overlooking?

Best,

Neil

Recently, Gig 601XL Builder posted:

Neil Gould wrote:
Recently, Gig 601XL Builder posted:

Neil Gould wrote:
Are the missions of the F-117 and F-22 all that similar?

Sure the F22 can do what the F117 can do and defend itself. The only
exception is the ability of the 117 to carry a 2K pound bomb.

F22 Load

Guns: 1× 20 mm (0.787 in) M61A2 Vulcan gatling gun in starboard wing
root, 480 rounds
Air to air loadout:
6× AIM-120 AMRAAM
2× AIM-9 Sidewinder
Air to ground loadout:
2× AIM-120 AMRAAM and
2× AIM-9 Sidewinder and one of the following:
2× 1,000 lb (450 kg) JDAM or
2× Wind Corrected Munitions Dispensers (WCMDs) or
8× 250 lb (110 kg) GBU-39 Small Diameter Bombs


F117 Load

2× internal weapons bays with one hardpoint each (total of two
weapons) equipped to carry:
Bombs:
BLU-109 hardened penetrator
GBU-10 Paveway II laser-guided bomb
GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bomb
GBU-27 Paveway III laser-guided bomb
JDAM INS/GPS guided munition

This doesn't look all that similar to me. The F-117 seems to be a
stealth strike configuration, while the F-22 is also suited to be an
air-to-air fighter, more like a stealthy replacement for the F-16.
What am I overlooking?


As I mentioned the F22 is lacking the ability to drop the 2K pound
bombs that the F117 can but it can drop all of these (plus probably
some stuff that is classified) and in some of the cases it can do it
at speeds above Mach 1. But over all it has the same number of hard
points as the F117.

I had asked about whether the missions were similar. The F-22 appears to
be a replacement for the F-15/16 in that regard, and in that it is a
Mach 1, all-weather, day/night aircraft, it doesn't look like an F-117
replacement to me at all. I suspect that the F-117's mission was made
obsolete by a combination of other technologies.

Best,

Neil

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:


The big draw back is the F-117 should have been called the A-117 as it
really isn't a fighter. It has no ability to defend itself except to
hide which it does very well. Remember it is a night only weapon which
does limit it's usefulness somewhat.


I always wondered what the AF was thinking when they came up with the F-117
designation. There's absolutely nothing "fighter" about it. Even older
attack jets like the A-7 had some ability to engage other aircraft.

Years ago at Holloman I asked an F-117 pilot about the fighter designation.
His reply was that he didn't know either. He said, "Everyone knows that this
thing couldn't fight its way out of a paper bag".

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
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"JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote in message
news:80f848127db8c@uwe

I always wondered what the AF was thinking when they came up with
the F-117 designation.

"Misdirection" is the best explanation I've heard from back in its "black"
days.

--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/blogs/TknoFlyer
http://sage1solutions.com/products
NEW! FlyteBalance v2.0 (W&B); FlyteLog v2.0 (Logbook)
____________________

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
et

I had asked about whether the missions were similar. The F-22 appears
to be a replacement for the F-15/16 in that regard, and in that it is
a Mach 1, all-weather, day/night aircraft, it doesn't look like an
F-117 replacement to me at all. I suspect that the F-117's mission
was made obsolete by a combination of other technologies.

You are correct in that the -22 was designed as a 21st century air
superiority aircraft to replace the -15. However, given its superior stealth
(at least that's what I've heard), far faster speed and ability to carry
significant air-to-ground ordnance, it can replace most of the mission of
the -117 and the -15E Strike Eagle in one airframe.

While I agree the -22 is not the bomber the -117 is, I think it's still an
adequate replacement.

--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/blogs/TknoFlyer
http://sage1solutions.com/products
NEW! FlyteBalance v2.0 (W&B); FlyteLog v2.0 (Logbook)
____________________

Neil Gould wrote:

I had asked about whether the missions were similar. The F-22 appears to
be a replacement for the F-15/16 in that regard, and in that it is a
Mach 1, all-weather, day/night aircraft, it doesn't look like an F-117
replacement to me at all. I suspect that the F-117's mission was made
obsolete by a combination of other technologies.

Best,

Neil



F117 is an air to ground machine, and first generation stealth
the F22 is both air to air and air to ground.

The F15 was both air to air and later generations had an air to ground
role. F16 was a cheaper lighter multirole machine.

The 117 used laser guided munitions primarily (which require a laser
designator to illuminate the target).

The F22 uses primarily GPS guided munitions (JDAM) for its big bang, AND
can defend itself - has a gun AND sidewinders AND AMRAAM's.

The F22 replaces the F117 and THEN some. And for the price each one
costs, they darn well better.

John T wrote:
"JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote in message
news:80f848127db8c@uwe
I always wondered what the AF was thinking when they came up with
the F-117 designation.

"Misdirection" is the best explanation I've heard from back in its "black"
days.


They wanted **** hot fighter pilots to fly it, and the powers that be
felt that no self respecting ****-hot fighter jockey would want to fly a
bomber.

At least thats the allegation I heard on the internet.. so it MUST be true..

JGalban via AviationKB.com wrote:
Gig 601XL Builder wrote:


The big draw back is the F-117 should have been called the A-117 as it
really isn't a fighter. It has no ability to defend itself except to
hide which it does very well. Remember it is a night only weapon which
does limit it's usefulness somewhat.



I always wondered what the AF was thinking when they came up with the F-117
designation. There's absolutely nothing "fighter" about it. Even older
attack jets like the A-7 had some ability to engage other aircraft.

Years ago at Holloman I asked an F-117 pilot about the fighter designation.
His reply was that he didn't know either. He said, "Everyone knows that this
thing couldn't fight its way out of a paper bag".

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)


Actually, the F-117 can carry two 2K warheads. And, with the LGB
weapons, it was deadly. This may not be fighter, but at the time with
the stealth technology and being able to fly at night to attack targets,
it was unstoppable. Just remember the first Gulf War in 1990.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI