Objective Engine Discussion

I am going to use a Corvair engine on my Zenith CH-601, you should at
least look into it.

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 17:26:02 GMT, "Kyle Boatright"
wrote:


"Rick Maddy" wrote in message
. com...
I wish to begin gathering UNEMOTIONAL, tangible pros and cons on
engine choices for my Cozy Mk IV. I won't be ready to begin working on
my firewall for about 12 more months.

As I see it today I have the following engine choices:

Lycoming 360 or XP-360
Mazda 13B or Renesis
Jabiru 5100
Subaru ???

My background:

- I don't know squat about engines - all I know is that they are big,
heavy, expensive, you add gas and oil, and it makes the big fan go

Issues I DO NOT want to discuss at this time:

- Resale value
- Religious discussions of using "standard" aircraft engine vs. auto
conversion.

Here are some questions I have at this time:

1) Fuel - Can the XP-360 use autogas? Can the listed auto engines use
100LL? For those of you using an auto engine - how do you get autogas
to your plane?

2) While I hope to learn a lot more about my engine, whichever I
choose, I don't expect to learn enough to do all work myself when it
comes to maintenance. Obviously, the XP-360 can be repaired at most
airports. For those with auto engines, what options do you have for
repair?

3) Living in Denver, I expect to fly above 10,000' quite a bit. Am I
going to want a turbo auto engine? What is equivilent for the XP-360?

Here is my current list of Pros/Cons for XP-360 vs. auto engine:

XP-360

Pros: Fairly standard, mostly plans install. Improvement over true
Lycoming. Get repairs at most airports. Get 100LL any airport.
Cons: Expensive repairs.

Auto Engine

Pros: Newer technology. Much cheaper repair. Cheaper parts at local
auto parts store.
Cons: Smaller knowledge base. Huge deviation from plans install. Might
need custom cowling. Where to get repairs? Where to get gas?

Comparisons that I see as a wash:

- Initial installation costs will end up being about the same.
- Installed weight/CG will be about the same.
- I know nothing about either so I have the same amount to learn.

I'm sure I'm missing some things here (and that is why I'm asking for
help).

Again, please keep answers and suggestions as objective as possible. I
don't want to start religious battles with this thread.

Thank you all for the help.

__________________
Rick Maddy
Denver, CO
Cozy Mk IV #824 - Chapter 19
http://www.maddyhome.com/cozy


IF, as you say, you don't know "squat" about engines, you'll have a bad time
trying to engineer a custom engine installation. I know it is attractive to
think you can save money on the initial engine cost (or subsequent fuel
cost) by using an alternate engine instead of a lycoming 0-320 or 0-360.
However, if your goal is to build a flying, traveling, airplane, you'll be
happier with the lycoming. You won't have to engineer a custom engine
mount, custom cooling and fuel systems, custom cable routings, custom
electrical system, etc. You won't have to do the follow-on development work
when/if your engineering wasn't quite good enough and the engine didn't run
right on your first test flight. Also, with a lycoming, when it breaks (all
engines and/or systems do - usually in somewhere the other side of
Timbuktu), you will be able to call a dozen different vendors and get THE
part you need Fed-Ex'ed to you the next day.

I have an 0-320 in my RV-6, and missed SnF a couple of years ago because my
neato electronic ignition died the day before the show, and the only guy in
the world with replacement parts was already at the show. I couldn't get in
touch with him to diagnose the problem or have parts shipped. That's the
kind of thing you run into with oddball *critical* equipment on your
airplane...

A fellow EAA'er just spend a YEAR post first flight working out development
issues with his auto conversion. He had the engine and other systems
running on a bench several years before he went flying, and still had plenty
of difficulties. Unless you're a tinkerer, not a flyer, go with a fully
developed engine installation.

KB

In article , Barnyard BOb --
writes:


Yes, Ron.
Bless Kevin and Kyle for their thoughtful input.

Perhaps it's time to retire from RAH
while I have some positive momentum.

NAH....
No way. ;-)

Barnyard BOb -- 3 cheers for today's Kansas City Chiefs



Don't you dare retire from RAH, who would we have to pick on then?


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

It worked for me, Unk.

John Stricker

"Barnyard BOb --" wrote in message
...
Yes, Ron.
Bless Kevin and Kyle for their thoughtful input.

Perhaps it's time to retire from RAH
while I have some positive momentum.

NAH....
No way. ;-)

Barnyard BOb -- 3 cheers for today's Kansas City Chiefs

On 3 Oct 2003 10:53:26 -0700, (Rick Maddy) wrote:

I wish to begin gathering UNEMOTIONAL, tangible pros and cons on
engine choices for my Cozy Mk IV. I won't be ready to begin working on
my firewall for about 12 more months.

As I see it today I have the following engine choices:

Lycoming 360 or XP-360
Mazda 13B or Renesis
Jabiru 5100
Subaru ???

My background:

- I don't know squat about engines - all I know is that they are big,
heavy, expensive, you add gas and oil, and it makes the big fan go

Issues I DO NOT want to discuss at this time:

- Resale value
- Religious discussions of using "standard" aircraft engine vs. auto
conversion.
_______________
Rick Maddy
Denver, CO
Cozy Mk IV #824 - Chapter 19
http://www.maddyhome.com/cozy

Rick, I'm the definative auto conversion believer and I'm recommending
you stay WAY away from anything like that. If you don't know and
intrinsically understand engines and how to work on them, you don't
want to be fooling with an auto conversion.

You want something with which you can swing in, bolt up, connect up
and go flying. That's not an auto conversion.

I'm an ex auto mechanic and am having lots of fun putting an engine
together right now, but that's my situation, not yours.

Corky Scott

Yes, Ron.
Bless Kevin and Kyle for their thoughtful input.

Perhaps it's time to retire from RAH
while I have some positive momentum.

NAH....
No way. ;-)

Barnyard BOb -- 3 cheers for today's Kansas City Chiefs


It worked for me, Unk.

John Stricker
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hi nephew John,

Long time no hear.

I wuz thinking of you just yesterday when they
announced on TeeVee that a chopper with
7 souls aboard went down in Columbia MO.
So far, it appears to be a hoax.

P.S.
I'm embarrassed that you caught me cheering for YOUR Chiefs.
However, what a fabulously outstanding feetball game !!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe, it really is time to bow out and leave
the peckerwoods to feed on each other. g


Unk aka Barnyard BOb aka BOb U.

Rick, I'm the definative auto conversion believer and I'm recommending
you stay WAY away from anything like that. If you don't know and
intrinsically understand engines and how to work on them, you don't
want to be fooling with an auto conversion.

You want something with which you can swing in, bolt up, connect up
and go flying. That's not an auto conversion.

I'm an ex auto mechanic and am having lots of fun putting an engine
together right now, but that's my situation, not yours.

Corky Scott
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Kudos., Corky.

This really needed to be said and is definitely
best said by someone like you or Bruce.


BTW....

definative = definitive


Barnyard BOb --

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:44:34 -0500, Barnyard BOb --
wrote:

BTW....

definative = definitive


Barnyard BOb --

I said I was the definative auto engine conversion believer, not the
definitive auto conversion speller. G

Didn't learn my mulitplication tables well either.

Corky Scott

In article ,
(Corky Scott) writes:


Rick, I'm the definative auto conversion believer and I'm recommending
you stay WAY away from anything like that. If you don't know and
intrinsically understand engines and how to work on them, you don't
want to be fooling with an auto conversion.

You want something with which you can swing in, bolt up, connect up
and go flying. That's not an auto conversion.

I'm an ex auto mechanic and am having lots of fun putting an engine
together right now, but that's my situation, not yours.

Corky Scott



Good and objective advice. I will add that if, as stated, you don't know squat
about engines then stick with a production style engine (xp360 or IO-360) which
can be serviced at any airport you are likely to encounter. You do not want to
set down in some out of the way airport with a Mazda, Subaru or other odd-ball
engine that YOU don't know how to work on and neither does anyone else at the
airport.

I am not a fanatic one way or the other about auto conversions but do believe
that you make your choice a logical on based on what you are capable of taking
care of. Putting an auto engine in an aircraft will require you to take more
of the burden of the installation and getting it right. It is not something
for someone who does not know what they are doing.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

"John Stricker" wrote in message ...
It worked for me, Unk.

Except of course when you air up your "re-tires" for
a drive-by posting

How's the plane building coming along in that gorgeous
shop o' yours? How's Chris's car? and did you finish
your CFI yet?

Cheers,
Sydney

Don't be embarrassed about cheering for my beloved Chiefs. Come out of the
closet once and for all. 8-) You should read the whining by the Donk fans
in the Chief's newsgroup. Priceless.

John "Long lost nephew" Stricker

"Barnyard BOb --" wrote in message
...

Yes, Ron.
Bless Kevin and Kyle for their thoughtful input.

Perhaps it's time to retire from RAH
while I have some positive momentum.

NAH....
No way. ;-)

Barnyard BOb -- 3 cheers for today's Kansas City Chiefs


It worked for me, Unk.

John Stricker
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hi nephew John,

Long time no hear.

I wuz thinking of you just yesterday when they
announced on TeeVee that a chopper with
7 souls aboard went down in Columbia MO.
So far, it appears to be a hoax.

P.S.
I'm embarrassed that you caught me cheering for YOUR Chiefs.
However, what a fabulously outstanding feetball game !!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe, it really is time to bow out and leave
the peckerwoods to feed on each other. g


Unk aka Barnyard BOb aka BOb U.