Has there ever been an off-center gun?

Wouldn't a gun pointed at a downward angle make ground attack easier?

Many ground attack aircraft have had such configuration, including IL-2.
Not all of them, but in remarkable numbers anyway.

jok

In article ,
Hobo writes:

Has there ever been an aircraft with a gun permanently aligned
off-center? I don't mean swivel mounted, but permanently fixed at a
point other than straight ahead.

Quite a few, actually. Assuming that you're willing to stipulate teh
defensive guns on bombers ranging from the Be.2C in WW I (ANd yes,
they did drop a few bombs) to the Tu-22M Backfire.

In terms of fighters, It's been done a number of times. The most
mentioned would be the upward-pointing "Shrage Muzik" guns on German
Night Fighters. This allowed them to formate on RAF night bombers in
the one quadrant with no lookouts or guns, and shoot into the largest
possible area - teh entire planform of the aircraft. The Japanese
tried something similar.

Wouldn't a gun pointed at a downward angle make ground attack easier?

Check out the Junkers-Larson ground attack prototype made for the
U.S. Army in the 1920s. It was basically an all-metal Junkers
monoplane transport with something like 30 .45 Calibre Thomson
Submachineguns firing at vatious angle through the bottom fuselage.
The idea was that it would fly along trench lines at low altitude,
saturating the trenches with bullets. (The opinions of the Gun
Plumber on board who'd have to change 30 75 round drum magazines after
each pass has not been recorded. Rest assured that it would have been
short, to teh point, disapproving, and contained a lock of words that
rhymed with "Duck".)

In the 1930s, the French built a large gunship with a downward firing
105mm Howitzer. From the 1960s on, the USAF, and several allied
nations, have flown various transports (C-47, C-119, C-130) with
arrays of guns pointing out of the side, aimed by maintaining a pylon
turn around the target. (Well, at first, at least) These guns have
range from 7.62mm machine guns to 105mm Howitzers, backed up by an
extensive sensor suite and ballistic computers. The side-firing bit
allows you to engange targets without flying over them, which is
generally considered a good thing.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

In article , Hobo wrote:

Has there ever been an aircraft with a gun permanently aligned
off-center? I don't mean swivel mounted, but permanently fixed at a
point other than straight ahead.

Any Luftwaffe aircraft mounting "Schrage Musik" comes to mind.

Ken

Wouldn't a gun pointed at a downward angle make ground attack easier?

The germans used the 'shrage musik' cannons to fire upwards (around 45°) for
night fighter use.
The japanese also often used this system on modified J2M3, Ki-45 and J1N1-S.
I also heard about 'shadow detection' upward firing experimental guns on
Fw190, perhaps other types (Bf110).

Has there ever been an aircraft with a gun permanently aligned
off-center? I don't mean swivel mounted, but permanently fixed at a
point other than straight ahead.

Wouldn't a gun pointed at a downward angle make ground attack easier?

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 11:01:20 -0800, Hobo wrote:

Has there ever been an aircraft with a gun permanently aligned
off-center? I don't mean swivel mounted, but permanently fixed at a
point other than straight ahead.

During WW2, many German night fighters were fitted with a gun firing
upwards, to attack bombers.

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: , but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Hobo
blurted out:

Has there ever been an aircraft with a gun permanently aligned
off-center?

F-15's gun is angled slightly above the waterline...for air-to-air,
making it unsuitable for strafe.

At least that's the answer I got at a PACAF conference when I asked
why they didn't have a 51-50 requirement to strafe.

Juvat

Hobo wrote:


Wouldn't a gun pointed at a downward angle make ground attack easier?

Most likely not, as you wouldn't be able to see what you were
shooting at.

Mike

Check out the Junkers-Larson ground attack prototype made for the
U.S. Army in the 1920s. It was basically an all-metal Junkers
monoplane transport with something like 30 .45 Calibre Thomson
Submachineguns firing at vatious angle through the bottom fuselage.
The idea was that it would fly along trench lines at low altitude,
saturating the trenches with bullets. (The opinions of the Gun
Plumber on board who'd have to change 30 75 round drum magazines after
each pass has not been recorded. Rest assured that it would have been
short, to teh point, disapproving, and contained a lock of words that
rhymed with "Duck".)

I could have sworn I saw something on the history channel once about a
modification someone tried on a Canberra... they made a pallet for the bomb
bay and fitted a dozen or so guns pointing straight out the bottom of it...
I think they showed it firing in ground tests, but that's all I've ever
heard about it...

"Juvat" wrote in message
...

F-15's gun is angled slightly above the waterline...for air-to-air,
making it unsuitable for strafe.

At least that's the answer I got at a PACAF conference when I asked
why they didn't have a 51-50 requirement to strafe.

Unsuitable is certainly not the word for it. The F-15E community has not
traditionally strafed on a regular basis because of the upcanted gun -- a
10-degree low angle strafe puts you pretty close to the dirt by the time you
cease fire.

Because of the "demand" for bullets in Allied Force, Enduring Freedom, and
Iraqi Freedom, strafe is back in the F-15E vernacular bigtime.

Check out the Junkers-Larson ground attack prototype made for the
U.S. Army in the 1920s. It was basically an all-metal Junkers
monoplane transport with something like 30 .45 Calibre Thomson
Submachineguns firing at vatious angle through the bottom fuselage.
The idea was that it would fly along trench lines at low altitude,
saturating the trenches with bullets. (The opinions of the Gun
Plumber on board who'd have to change 30 75 round drum magazines after
each pass has not been recorded. Rest assured that it would have been
short, to teh point, disapproving, and contained a lock of words that
rhymed with "Duck".)

In the 1930s, the French built a large gunship with a downward firing
105mm Howitzer. From the 1960s on, the USAF, and several allied
nations, have flown various transports (C-47, C-119, C-130) with
arrays of guns pointing out of the side, aimed by maintaining a pylon
turn around the target. (Well, at first, at least) These guns have
range from 7.62mm machine guns to 105mm Howitzers, backed up by an
extensive sensor suite and ballistic computers. The side-firing bit
allows you to engange targets without flying over them, which is
generally considered a good thing.

--

Acutally, I believe the Germans were first. They developed a class of
Riesenflugzeug (Giant Aircraft) which began appearing in 1915. By 1916, LT
Ernst Neuber began working on his idea of mounting a 130mm cannon vertically in
the belly of an R-plane. Static tests began 25 May 1916 using a Gotha East
Experimental. On 6 October 1916 the gun was installed on the R-plane and the
gun was test fired several time in flight on 19 October. The Germans continued
testing and were working on a 105mm automatic cannon firing 20 rounds/minute
when the war ended. Neuber even patented his invention (#305,039).

There are reports of a side-firing .30 calibre machine gun being used on a DH-4
in 1927.

The French system of 1932 used the fameous French 75 mounted side-ways in the
Bordelaise A.B. 22 aircraft.

The USA tested the side-firing gunship concept duirng the summer of 1964 at
Eglin AFB using a C-131 transport and, IIRC, a single .7.62 mini-gun. The first
American gunship was the "FC-47" which carried 10 .30 cal side-firing machine
guns developed by Major Ronald W. Terry at Eglin AFB.


Ed
"The French couldn't hate us any
more unless we helped 'em out in another war."
--Will Rogers



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