Crab, slips, and crossed controls

"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message
...
| On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:10:50 GMT, Robert Moore
| wrote:
|
| Stealth Pilot wrote
| Sideslips are a very useful tool because they allow you to
| substantially increase the drag, which makes you descent like a
| plumbers toolbag, but doesnt change the forward speed. so you have no
| increased risk of stalling as you wash off the height.
|
| What you have described is the "forward slip". Although control usage
| is the same in both, a "side slip" is used to correct for a crosswind,
| and a "forward slip" is used to descend more rapidly on final without
| having the airspeed increase. If one is not landing, I suppose that it
| would just be a "slip".
|
| Airliners normally do not use either because of the increased discomfort
| caused the passengers....both being uncoordinated flight.
|
| Amine wrote:
| PS: I have read about many cases of jetliners that had to make
| emergency descents at abnormally high speeds, but the AC143 seems the
| only one to have used the sideslip.
|
| AC 143 was constrained by "touchdown speed" runway length. An "emergency
| descent" has no such constraint and therefore is able to use the
| aircraft's maximum certificated speed for the descent...far in excess of
| what would be possible in an approach/landing situation.
|
| In an engine failure situation, keep it as high as possible for as long
| as possible to insure that the field can be reached, and then slip as
| much as required to lose the excess altitude without gaining airspeed.
|
| Bob Moore
| Flight Instructor ASE-IA
| ATP B-707 B-727
| PanAm (retired)
|
| in my country the manouver I describe is always called a side slip.
|
| side slips are used as I indicate to dirty up the aircraft
| aerodynamically.
| they can be used to counter a crosswind but the crabbed approach is
| preferred because it doesnt change the approach profile.
|
| it is a side slip.
|
| youalls mileage may vary :-)
|
| Stealth Pilot

Yeah, but you're a dumb ass.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
| george wrote in news:7f5d8c7e-2345-427c-bec6-
| :
|
| On Sep 23, 8:17 am, John Godwin wrote:
|
| That's incredible. When I took my CFI Ride, I had to demonstrate a
| maximum effort forward slip on final. Kicked out when I was over the
| fence and hit the numbers. Seems as if your instructor didn't know the
| difference between a slip and a skid.
|
| A number of aircraft that I've flown do not have flaps and the
| sideslip was an everyday common maneuver .
| I found the practice was frowned upon in the modern aircraft as there
| were claims that the elevators were shielded and all manner of
| problems could develop
|
|
|
| Some early big flap cessnas got a little wobbly, but that's all. The Bird
| dog gets very funky when slipped with full flaps ~( 60 deg) but mostly
it's
| just another skill falling into decline because it's "too hard"
|
|
| Bertie

Much like your disposition.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
| " wrote in
| :
|
| On Sep 22, 5:29 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
| george wrote in news:7f5d8c7e-2345-427c-bec6-
| :
|
| On Sep 23, 8:17 am, John Godwin wrote:
|
| That's incredible. When I took my CFI Ride, I had to demonstrate
| a maximum effort forward slip on final. Kicked out when I was
| over th
| e
| fence and hit the numbers. Seems as if your instructor didn't
| know
| the
| difference between a slip and a skid.
|
| A number of aircraft that I've flown do not have flaps and the
| sideslip was an everyday common maneuver .
| I found the practice was frowned upon in the modern aircraft as
| there were claims that the elevators were shielded and all manner
| of problems could develop
|
| Some early big flap cessnas got a little wobbly, but that's all. The
| Bird dog gets very funky when slipped with full flaps ~( 60 deg) but
| mostly it
| 's
| just another skill falling into decline because it's "too hard"
|
| Bertie
|
| I'm a student with 70 hrs and my CFI teaches slips to bleed off
| altitude, especially for engine failure practice. The only restriction
| is not to use full flaps in a 172SP. Apparently it causes too much
| vibration.
|
|
| You're one of the fortunate ones!
|
|
| Bertie

Your not, you're a dumb ass.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
| Alan Gerber wrote in news:gb9s8n$ngu$1
| @reader1.panix.com:
|
| wrote:
| Sure they are still being taught, though the emphasis these days
| is in crosswind landings. I think I only did one or two to lose
| altitude while a student, the instructors comment being if you
| plan properly you seldom need to do this in an airplane with flaps.
|
| Exactly. My instructor's comment was that we were practicing it in case
| the flaps failed. And because it's in the PTS, of course.
|
| There's value in that, but they're also more useful than flaps in the
event
| of an engine failure. You get better glide control with them and you can
| always use the flaps at the end of the glide..
|
|
| Bertie

In real aviation, that is aircraft dependant.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
| Gezellig wrote in news:6jsl4oF4u1b1U1
| @mid.individual.net:
|
| On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:59:34 -0700 (PDT), Gene Seibel wrote:
|
| Slips were in common use for bringing an aircraft down in the days
| before flaps, and were taught for that purpose when learned to fly in
| the 70's. They work very well. Is that no longer being taught?
|
| A power-out slip to landing? I had to beg for it.
|
|
| Your instructor was jewish?
|
| Bertie

I thought you were Jewish?

Bertie the Jew!

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
| Stefan wrote in
| :
|
| Mick schrieb:
|
| | Glider pilots use them on occasion for rapid descent and they are
| | expected to demonstrate proficiency in them on the practical exam.
|
| How do you maintain alignment with the tow plane?
|
| When *descending*? )
|
| BTW, some glider pilots use short slips to take up slack from the tow
| rope, should there happen to occur some in turbulence. Most prefer the
| use of airbrakes, though.
|
|
| No, they don;t fjukkktard.
|
|
| They skid.
|
|
|
| Bertie

You're a dumb ass. I seriously doubt you have ever flown a sailplane.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
| "Mick" #$$#@%%%.^^^ wrote in :
|
|
| "Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
| ...
| | "Mick" #$$#@%%%.^^^ wrote in news:rb_Bk.17810$wr1.16736
| @newsfe02.iad:
| |
| |
| | "Jim Logajan" wrote in message
| | .. .
| | | Amine wrote:
| | | Now I thought that sideslips (and crabs--whatever the difference
| | | between the two is...) were only to be used to handle
| crosswinds. I
| | | didn't read anywhere that they could be used to bleed excessive
| | | speed, although it makes sense from an aerodynamics perspective.
| | | Anyone out there used sideslips for anything other than
| crosswind
| | | approaches?
| | |
| | | Glider pilots use them on occasion for rapid descent and they are
| | | expected to demonstrate proficiency in them on the practical exam.
| |
| | How do you maintain alignment with the tow plane?
| |
| |
| | What's it to you, you don't fly.
| |
| |
| | Bertie
|
| Prove it dumb ass.
|
|
|
|
| Don't need to.
|
| No more than I need to prove that you are a halfwit or that the sun will
| rise in the east tomorrow.
|
|
|
| Bertie

But you are good at proving you are so totally full of ****.

You're a perpetual fountain of bull****.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
| "Mick" #$$#@%%%.^^^ wrote in :
|
|
| "Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
| ...
| | Amine wrote in news:18e46a13-6294-4b68-9775-
| | :
| |
| | Hey,
| |
| | Some of you may have heard of Air Canada 143
| [http://www.youtube.com/
| | watch?v=dfJIpA2gv1g] which ran out of fuel in mid air and had to
| make
| | an emergency descent at velocities way above the normal limits. The
| | pilot's makeshift technique was to engage a sideslip to decelerate
| the
| | aircraft (which by then had no flaps, and only minimal hydraulics).
| |
| | Now I thought that sideslips (and crabs--whatever the difference
| | between the two is...) were only to be used to handle crosswinds.
| |
| | They're different and they aren't just used for crosswinds.
| |
| |
| | I
| | didn't read anywhere that they could be used to bleed excessive
| speed,
| | although it makes sense from an aerodynamics perspective. Anyone
| out
| | there used sideslips for anything other than crosswind approaches?
| |
| | PS: I have read about many cases of jetliners that had to make
| | emergency descents at abnormally high speeds, but the AC143 seems
| the
| | only one to have used the sideslip.
| |
| |
| |
| | it isn't.
| |
| |
| | Bertie
|
|


You do a good job of being stupid.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
| "Mick" #$$#@%%%.^^^ wrote in :
|
|
| "Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
| ...
| | "RandyL" rlink(AT)cableone(DOT)net wrote in
| | :
| |
| | Hi Amine,
| | I'll sometimes use a sideslip on final when I want to practice an
| | approach without using any flaps.
| |
| | That's actually a forwad slip.
| |
| |
| |
| |
| | Bertie
|
| That's a slip.
|
|
|
|
| Like you'd know wannabe boi with a stutter
|
| Bertie

You are answering every post twice again, they must have upped your meds.

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
news:bfb42c23-8a15-4706-b1a6-

Many air show pilots use a slip to simply scrub off some altitude or
airspeed entering a show line if the entry is a bit high or fast or
both. I usually employed this in the entry turn which was almost
always a descending turn into the show line. It's quite common to see
pilots of high performance tail wheel airplanes like a Pitts for
example, using a slipping turn onto final approach, then holding in
the slip correcting the turn into a slipping transition to a short
straight slipping final.
I like to think of slips not so much as a maneuver per se, but simply
an application of diliberate crossing of controls to achieve a
specific result from the airplane. In other words, a slip should be
considered as much of the pilot's normal control application as any so
called "coordinated" input of controls.

-----------------------------------------

And of course you would know that, because you are an aviation legend.