How to suspend a glider?

Hi all,
Has anyone out there ever suspended a glider in the air without
resorting to the conventional method of airflow over the wings? I have
an opportunity to hang both of my Grob 103's in two malls over the
holiday season. I am pushing for having a Santa in the back and a
Rudolf leaning forward in the front, scarf trailing. Both canopies
will be off. I will have a Glider Ride Gift Certificate booth [not
quite directly] underneath. Some of you may have seen my Mall
Experiment article in the June 2008 issue of Soaring. Well, I'm
experimenting some more!
My first thought, unencumbered by either engineering training or good
advice, is to fabricate a heavy duty, white canvas sling, maybe 2 feet
wide, that would go where the fuselage dolly goes, in front of the
wings and as far aft as possible. The CG hook mechanism could be used
to attach to it also to protect against slippage. The sling would be
sewn proffessionally, providing a pair of rip-free, foolproof,
attachment points on each side. The remaining 50 lbs on the tail could
be handled with a wire running from this central sling support cable
45 degrees down to the horizontal stab attachment bolt at the top of
the verticle stab. The wings could have wires running from the wing
tip skid/tie downs to this central sling support cable at about 45
degrees also.
Thoughts?
Clearly the mall engineers and their insurance underwriters are going
to have the last word, but if any of you have advice/experience/
thoughts, I'd sure appreciate hearing from you. Oh yeah, the 103
weighs in at 850 lbs.
Thanks in advance,
Don Ingraham
http://www.crosscountrysoaring.com

It is very common in continental Europe to suspend gliders from the hangar
roof to make full use of the space available. I'm sure someone who does
that will be along soon.

I have seen a Nimbus 3/4 strung up at a Swiss club.



At 06:28 07 October 2008, wrote:
Hi all,
Has anyone out there ever suspended a glider in the air without
resorting to the conventional method of airflow over the wings? I have
an opportunity to hang both of my Grob 103's in two malls over the
holiday season. I am pushing for having a Santa in the back and a
Rudolf leaning forward in the front, scarf trailing. Both canopies
will be off. I will have a Glider Ride Gift Certificate booth [not
quite directly] underneath. Some of you may have seen my Mall
Experiment article in the June 2008 issue of Soaring. Well, I'm
experimenting some more!
My first thought, unencumbered by either engineering training or good
advice, is to fabricate a heavy duty, white canvas sling, maybe 2 feet
wide, that would go where the fuselage dolly goes, in front of the
wings and as far aft as possible. The CG hook mechanism could be used
to attach to it also to protect against slippage. The sling would be
sewn proffessionally, providing a pair of rip-free, foolproof,
attachment points on each side. The remaining 50 lbs on the tail could
be handled with a wire running from this central sling support cable
45 degrees down to the horizontal stab attachment bolt at the top of
the verticle stab. The wings could have wires running from the wing
tip skid/tie downs to this central sling support cable at about 45
degrees also.
Thoughts?
Clearly the mall engineers and their insurance underwriters are going
to have the last word, but if any of you have advice/experience/
thoughts, I'd sure appreciate hearing from you. Oh yeah, the 103
weighs in at 850 lbs.
Thanks in advance,
Don Ingraham
http://www.crosscountrysoaring.com

Hi Don,

Great idea! I can't wait to see it! I'd be glad to help.

Take a look at how the ASK-21 is hung at Stanton Airport. My guess is that
the system used is over-designed by a factor of 10.

Without doing any calculations, I would recommend seat belt material rather
than canvas. 2 to 4 straps should do the job easily - I think. They could
meet at the top of the glider where a cable could attach. You should be
able to get strength ratings for it the material. You'd want to use a safety
factor of 4 or so (only use 1/4 the of the weight they can handle). I'm not
giving you engineering advice, just my quick thoughts. I imagine that
putting knots into the seat belts would reduce their strength dramatically.

Paul Remde


"Pete Smith" wrote in message
...
It is very common in continental Europe to suspend gliders from the hangar
roof to make full use of the space available. I'm sure someone who does
that will be along soon.

I have seen a Nimbus 3/4 strung up at a Swiss club.



At 06:28 07 October 2008, wrote:
Hi all,
Has anyone out there ever suspended a glider in the air without
resorting to the conventional method of airflow over the wings? I have
an opportunity to hang both of my Grob 103's in two malls over the
holiday season. I am pushing for having a Santa in the back and a
Rudolf leaning forward in the front, scarf trailing. Both canopies
will be off. I will have a Glider Ride Gift Certificate booth [not
quite directly] underneath. Some of you may have seen my Mall
Experiment article in the June 2008 issue of Soaring. Well, I'm
experimenting some more!
My first thought, unencumbered by either engineering training or good
advice, is to fabricate a heavy duty, white canvas sling, maybe 2 feet
wide, that would go where the fuselage dolly goes, in front of the
wings and as far aft as possible. The CG hook mechanism could be used
to attach to it also to protect against slippage. The sling would be
sewn proffessionally, providing a pair of rip-free, foolproof,
attachment points on each side. The remaining 50 lbs on the tail could
be handled with a wire running from this central sling support cable
45 degrees down to the horizontal stab attachment bolt at the top of
the verticle stab. The wings could have wires running from the wing
tip skid/tie downs to this central sling support cable at about 45
degrees also.
Thoughts?
Clearly the mall engineers and their insurance underwriters are going
to have the last word, but if any of you have advice/experience/
thoughts, I'd sure appreciate hearing from you. Oh yeah, the 103
weighs in at 850 lbs.
Thanks in advance,
Don Ingraham
http://www.crosscountrysoaring.com

Hi Don,

In Germany, we use a few feet of firehose to suspend gliders from the
hangar roof. Advantage: You don't have to put knots into anything, you
can fix it with bolts right through the hose. Just like you suggested,
you make two slings, one well before the COG and one behind. You don't
necessarily have to attach it to the COG - hook, you just have to level
it out right.

Chris

On Oct 7, 2:28*am, wrote:
Hi all,
Has anyone out there ever suspended a glider in the air without
resorting to the conventional method of airflow over the wings? I have
an opportunity to hang both of my Grob 103's in two malls over the
holiday season. I am pushing for having a Santa in the back and a
Rudolf leaning forward in the front, scarf trailing. Both canopies
will be off. I will have a Glider Ride Gift Certificate booth [not
quite directly] underneath. Some of you may have seen my Mall
Experiment article in the June 2008 issue of Soaring. Well, I'm
experimenting some more!
My first thought, unencumbered by either engineering training or good
advice, is to fabricate a heavy duty, white canvas sling, maybe 2 feet
wide, that would go where the fuselage dolly goes, in front of the
wings and as far aft as possible. The CG hook mechanism could be used
to attach to it also to protect against slippage. The sling would be
sewn proffessionally, providing a pair of rip-free, foolproof,
attachment points on each side. The remaining 50 lbs on the tail could
be handled with a wire running from this central sling support cable
45 degrees down to the horizontal stab attachment bolt at the top of
the verticle stab. The wings could have wires running from the wing
tip skid/tie downs to this central sling support cable at about 45
degrees also.
Thoughts?
Clearly the mall engineers and their insurance underwriters are going
to have the last word, but if any of you have advice/experience/
thoughts, I'd sure appreciate hearing from you. Oh yeah, the 103
weighs in at 850 lbs.
Thanks in advance,
Don Ingrahamhttp://www.crosscountrysoaring.com

Hi Don,

We routinely use wide nylon straps along the lines of what you are
describing to lift glider fuselages in a friend's shop. I would
suggest that you line them with a medium density foam to provide some
grip to prevent twisting. The cables to the wingtip will also help
with that.

Hope this works out for you!

Erik Mann (LS8-18 P3)

On Oct 7, 12:28*am, wrote:
Hi all,
Has anyone out there ever suspended a glider in the air without
resorting to the conventional method of airflow over the wings? I have
an opportunity to hang both of my Grob 103's in two malls over the
holiday season. I am pushing for having a Santa in the back and a
Rudolf leaning forward in the front, scarf trailing. Both canopies
will be off. I will have a Glider Ride Gift Certificate booth [not
quite directly] underneath. Some of you may have seen my Mall
Experiment article in the June 2008 issue of Soaring. Well, I'm
experimenting some more!
My first thought, unencumbered by either engineering training or good
advice, is to fabricate a heavy duty, white canvas sling, maybe 2 feet
wide, that would go where the fuselage dolly goes, in front of the
wings and as far aft as possible. The CG hook mechanism could be used
to attach to it also to protect against slippage. The sling would be
sewn proffessionally, providing a pair of rip-free, foolproof,
attachment points on each side. The remaining 50 lbs on the tail could
be handled with a wire running from this central sling support cable
45 degrees down to the horizontal stab attachment bolt at the top of
the verticle stab. The wings could have wires running from the wing
tip skid/tie downs to this central sling support cable at about 45
degrees also.
Thoughts?
Clearly the mall engineers and their insurance underwriters are going
to have the last word, but if any of you have advice/experience/
thoughts, I'd sure appreciate hearing from you. Oh yeah, the 103
weighs in at 850 lbs.
Thanks in advance,
Don Ingrahamhttp://www.crosscountrysoaring.com

I think slings fore and aft of the wings and a third at the tail.
With fore/aft of wings, probably no need to use the CG hook.

Just a sling in the dolly position will result in way more than 50lbs
of tail weight with the wings on and no weight on the wheel.

Frank Whiteley

On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 23:28:48 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Hi all,
Has anyone out there ever suspended a glider in the air without
resorting to the conventional method of airflow over the wings? I have
an opportunity to hang both of my Grob 103's in two malls over the
holiday season. I am pushing for having a Santa in the back and a
Rudolf leaning forward in the front, scarf trailing. Both canopies
will be off. I will have a Glider Ride Gift Certificate booth [not
quite directly] underneath. Some of you may have seen my Mall
Experiment article in the June 2008 issue of Soaring. Well, I'm
experimenting some more!
My first thought, unencumbered by either engineering training or good
advice, is to fabricate a heavy duty, white canvas sling, maybe 2 feet
wide, that would go where the fuselage dolly goes, in front of the
wings and as far aft as possible. The CG hook mechanism could be used
to attach to it also to protect against slippage. The sling would be
sewn proffessionally, providing a pair of rip-free, foolproof,
attachment points on each side. The remaining 50 lbs on the tail could
be handled with a wire running from this central sling support cable
45 degrees down to the horizontal stab attachment bolt at the top of
the verticle stab. The wings could have wires running from the wing
tip skid/tie downs to this central sling support cable at about 45
degrees also.
Thoughts?

I would look into the nylon straps that are sold for towing cars.
They're fairly soft, have sturdy hooks professionally attached at the
ends, and have specific load ratings.

rj

On Oct 7, 1:28*am, wrote:
Hi all,
Has anyone out there ever suspended a glider in the air without
resorting to the conventional method of airflow over the wings? I have
an opportunity to hang both of my Grob 103's in two malls over the
holiday season. I am pushing for having a Santa in the back and a
Rudolf leaning forward in the front, scarf trailing. Both canopies
will be off. I will have a Glider Ride Gift Certificate booth [not
quite directly] underneath. Some of you may have seen my Mall
Experiment article in the June 2008 issue of Soaring. Well, I'm
experimenting some more!
My first thought, unencumbered by either engineering training or good
advice, is to fabricate a heavy duty, white canvas sling, maybe 2 feet
wide, that would go where the fuselage dolly goes, in front of the
wings and as far aft as possible. The CG hook mechanism could be used
to attach to it also to protect against slippage. The sling would be
sewn proffessionally, providing a pair of rip-free, foolproof,
attachment points on each side. The remaining 50 lbs on the tail could
be handled with a wire running from this central sling support cable
45 degrees down to the horizontal stab attachment bolt at the top of
the verticle stab. The wings could have wires running from the wing
tip skid/tie downs to this central sling support cable at about 45
degrees also.
Thoughts?
Clearly the mall engineers and their insurance underwriters are going
to have the last word, but if any of you have advice/experience/
thoughts, I'd sure appreciate hearing from you. Oh yeah, the 103
weighs in at 850 lbs.
Thanks in advance,
Don Ingrahamhttp://www.crosscountrysoaring.com

As Paul mentioned, the Stanton rig has been in use for many years - it
uses two straps about 6" wide, one in front and one behind the wing
and an I-beam frame above to tie it all together to the lift hoist. It
all looks very heavy duty.

I've been told there is a Std Cirrus suspended in a building somewhere
in downtown Minneapolis - you may want to check that out.

And there is a Std Cirrus mounted upside down on a steep angle to the
inside roof at Gwyn's High Alpine mid-mountain restaurant in Snowmass
- very cool!

Rather than engineer your own sling, there are plenty of industrial
lifting straps out there that are rated for whatever weight you want
to lift to many thousand of pounds. You can get custom straps made too
- a quick web search (no affiliation):

http://www.yellowslings.com/?mfss=go...FQOaFQodnRnJFA

With regards to satisfying the mall insurance guy, my guess is he will
demand a P.E. sign-off on the entire mounting system.

I look forward to seeing the dramatic results!

/Adam

On Oct 7, 8:30*am, Adam wrote:
On Oct 7, 1:28*am, wrote:



Hi all,
Has anyone out there ever suspended a glider in the air without
resorting to the conventional method of airflow over the wings? I have
an opportunity to hang both of my Grob 103's in two malls over the
holiday season. I am pushing for having a Santa in the back and a
Rudolf leaning forward in the front, scarf trailing. Both canopies
will be off. I will have a Glider Ride Gift Certificate booth [not
quite directly] underneath. Some of you may have seen my Mall
Experiment article in the June 2008 issue of Soaring. Well, I'm
experimenting some more!
My first thought, unencumbered by either engineering training or good
advice, is to fabricate a heavy duty, white canvas sling, maybe 2 feet
wide, that would go where the fuselage dolly goes, in front of the
wings and as far aft as possible. The CG hook mechanism could be used
to attach to it also to protect against slippage. The sling would be
sewn proffessionally, providing a pair of rip-free, foolproof,
attachment points on each side. The remaining 50 lbs on the tail could
be handled with a wire running from this central sling support cable
45 degrees down to the horizontal stab attachment bolt at the top of
the verticle stab. The wings could have wires running from the wing
tip skid/tie downs to this central sling support cable at about 45
degrees also.
Thoughts?
Clearly the mall engineers and their insurance underwriters are going
to have the last word, but if any of you have advice/experience/
thoughts, I'd sure appreciate hearing from you. Oh yeah, the 103
weighs in at 850 lbs.
Thanks in advance,
Don Ingrahamhttp://www.crosscountrysoaring.com

As Paul mentioned, the Stanton rig has been in use for many years - it
uses two straps about 6" wide, one in front and one behind the wing
and an I-beam frame above to tie it all together to the lift hoist. It
all looks very heavy duty.

I've been told there is a Std Cirrus suspended in a building somewhere
in downtown Minneapolis - you may want to check that out.

And there is a Std Cirrus mounted upside down on a steep angle to the
inside roof at Gwyn's High Alpine mid-mountain restaurant in Snowmass
- very cool!

Rather than engineer your own sling, there are plenty of industrial
lifting straps out there that are rated for whatever weight you want
to lift to many thousand of pounds. You can get custom straps made too
- a quick web search (no affiliation):

http://www.yellowslings.com/?mfss=go...gs&mfsa=nylons...

With regards to satisfying the mall insurance guy, my guess is he will
demand a P.E. sign-off on the entire mounting system.

I look forward to seeing the dramatic results!

/Adam

I've been told there is a Std Cirrus suspended in a building somewhere
in downtown Minneapolis - you may want to check that out.


If my memory is correct it was a Grob 102 and it was in Butler
Square. It was there when I lived in Minneapolis around 1993. There
was an image in Soaring during that period.

What you want for the straps are called "recovery straps". You should
be able to buy a pair off the shelf for the strength and length you
need.

The children's museum in Indianapolis had an SH-K suspended from a ceiling
for a number of years. The glider was donated to them by John McCarthy; it
is probably in storage there. The museum might have some advice.

At 15:11 07 October 2008, Tim Taylor wrote:
On Oct 7, 8:30=A0am, Adam wrote:
On Oct 7, 1:28=A0am, wrote:



Hi all,
Has anyone out there ever suspended a glider in the air without
resorting to the conventional method of airflow over the wings? I
have
an opportunity to hang both of my Grob 103's in two malls over the
holiday season. I am pushing for having a Santa in the back and a
Rudolf leaning forward in the front, scarf trailing. Both canopies
will be off. I will have a Glider Ride Gift Certificate booth [not
quite directly] underneath. Some of you may have seen my Mall
Experiment article in the June 2008 issue of Soaring. Well, I'm
experimenting some more!
My first thought, unencumbered by either engineering training or
good
advice, is to fabricate a heavy duty, white canvas sling, maybe 2
feet
wide, that would go where the fuselage dolly goes, in front of the
wings and as far aft as possible. The CG hook mechanism could be
used
to attach to it also to protect against slippage. The sling would be
sewn proffessionally, providing a pair of rip-free, foolproof,
attachment points on each side. The remaining 50 lbs on the tail
could
be handled with a wire running from this central sling support cable
45 degrees down to the horizontal stab attachment bolt at the top of
the verticle stab. The wings could have wires running from the wing
tip skid/tie downs to this central sling support cable at about 45
degrees also.
Thoughts?
Clearly the mall engineers and their insurance underwriters are
going
to have the last word, but if any of you have advice/experience/
thoughts, I'd sure appreciate hearing from you. Oh yeah, the 103
weighs in at 850 lbs.
Thanks in advance,
Don Ingrahamhttp://www.crosscountrysoaring.com

As Paul mentioned, the Stanton rig has been in use for many years - it
uses two straps about 6" wide, one in front and one behind the wing
and an I-beam frame above to tie it all together to the lift hoist. It
all looks very heavy duty.

I've been told there is a Std Cirrus suspended in a building
somewhere
in downtown Minneapolis - you may want to check that out.

And there is a Std Cirrus mounted upside down on a steep angle to the
inside roof at Gwyn's High Alpine mid-mountain restaurant in Snowmass
- very cool!

Rather than engineer your own sling, there are plenty of industrial
lifting straps out there that are rated for whatever weight you want
to lift to many thousand of pounds. You can get custom straps made too
- a quick web search (no affiliation):


http://www.yellowslings.com/?mfss=3D...s&mfsa=3Dnylo=
ns...

With regards to satisfying the mall insurance guy, my guess is he will
demand a P.E. sign-off on the entire mounting system.

I look forward to seeing the dramatic results!

/Adam

I've been told there is a Std Cirrus suspended in a building
somewhere
in downtown Minneapolis - you may want to check that out.


If my memory is correct it was a Grob 102 and it was in Butler
Square. It was there when I lived in Minneapolis around 1993. There
was an image in Soaring during that period.

What you want for the straps are called "recovery straps". You should
be able to buy a pair off the shelf for the strength and length you
need.