Where to live with soaring in mind?

Here's a summary of OLC winter flights 11/1/2008-2/14/2009, for what
it's worth:
Seminole Lake, FL 50
Warner Springs, CA 37
Moriarty, Albuquerque, NM 28
TSA, Dallas, TX 28
El Tiro, Tucson, AZ 26
Williams, CA 18
Chilhowee, TN 18
Grass Roots, Saratoga, FL 18
Hemet-Ryan, CA 17
Marion Co-Brown, GA? 11
Hollister, CA 11
Santa Ynez, 10
Byron, CA 8
Soar Club Huston, TX 8
Pierson, FL 6
FLF 4
Jean - Las Vegas, NV 2
Estrella, AZ 2
Mountain Valley, CA 1
Aqua Duice, 1
Pleasant Valley, Turf, AZ 1
Minden, NV 1
Air Sailing, 1

This is an interesting thread for warm weather dreamers like me.
Here's the number of OLC winter flights 11/1/2008-2/14/2009.
Unfortunately many pilots don't post on OLC, so these stats are not
very scientific, but it shows some do fly year round:
Seminole Lake, FL 50
Warner Springs, CA 37
Moriarty, Albuquerque, 28
TSA, Dallas, TX 28
El Tiro, Tucson, AZ 26
Williams, CA 18
Chilhowee, TN 18
Saratoga, FL 18
Hemet-Ryan, CA 17
Marion Co-Brown 11
Hollister, CA 11
Santa Ynez, CA 10
Byron, CA 8
Soar Club Huston, TX 8
Pierson, FL 6
FLF 4
Jean - Las Vegas, NV 2
Estrella, AZ 2
Mountain Valley, CA 1
Aqua Duice, 1
Pleasant Valley,AZ 1
Minden, NV 1
Air Sailing 1
~Barny

On Feb 14, 9:02*pm, "Mike Schumann" mike-nos...@traditions-
nospam.com wrote:
If you are interested in the Midwest, look at Northfield MN, the home of
Carleton College. *A wonderful small town, with an Ivy League caliber
college within 5 miles of Stanton Airport, the home of the Minnesota Soaring
Club.

The soaring in the summer is great. *There have been some great X-Country
flights, including a club member who flew a downwind dash from Stanton to
Gary IN in a 1-26.

The winters are a pain, but that's what keeps the riff-raft out.

No pain, no gain.

Mike Schumann

"Nyal Williams" wrote in message

...

Move to the Mid-west. *Housing is cheap. Thermals don't go very high
(5000agl on the best days) so retrieves are cheap. *Fly only seven months
of the year, so the entire bill is cheap. *Lots of hangar flying in the
winter, and that's cheap.

At 17:30 14 February 2009, Jp Mobo wrote:

redding, sandwiched between a high fire hazard zone and a flood plain

http://www.ci.redding.ca.us/devserv/gis/download.html

desert southwest - dry, lifeless air not good for soaring

At 16:52 14 February 2009, wrote:
On Feb 14, 8:49=A0am, wrote:
Tienshanman:

I'm a big Minden booster. =A0I moved here 4 years ago for the
soaring
and love the mountains, outdoor activities, and -- best of all -- the
soaring. =A0Schools in Douglas County are the best in the state,
population growth is not explosive the way it is in other nice parts
of the US, people are friendly and it's generally a very nice place
to
live. =A0Reno is a 40 minute drive, San Francisco 4 hours, and did I
mention the soaring is the best in the world? Oh, and we don't have
California's tax situation. =A0 Write if there are any questions I
can
answer specifically.

Fred LaSor
email =3D flasor AT frognet.net

Redding is about 100 miles from Montague, CA, lots of soaring
activity, also about 100 miles from Williams, CA *Commercial operation
with lots of active pilots.

Turf Soaring and Estrella near Phoenix if you can stand the heat have
incredibly inexpensive housing prices right now (Phoenix Area)

Right. The point the folks are obviously making is that life is not
100% soaring, especially for the family. From May through August,the
upper midwest gets frequent after-coldfront-highs with very good
thermal soaring. From mid-October through March, you can trailer the
glider somewhere else, while your wife and kids enjoy the good
schools, topnotch medical care, and friendly social culture of the
upper midwest (they don't call it "Minnesota Nice" without reason,
though this culture isn't for everyone). And Northfield, in
particular, is just a half hour away from all the culture of the Twin
Cities: theater and art and jazz and classical music and opera and a
broad array of popular music, multiple colleges, and even some
recreation. The downhill skiing is terrible, but lakes are abundant.

On the other hand, Logan is near some of the most wonderful mountain
recreation in the country, does have a college, and Mormons are
generally well-behaved, if you don't mind the cultural and theological
stiffness.

There are many places you can soar, and if you go to a "greatest"
soaring site, and your family is unhappy, the soaring won't
matter ...or maybe the family will decide *you* don't matter...

There's no perfect choice, but if you make your family content near a
soaring place, the mean and standard deviation of happiness in your
family is likely to be close to optimal.

Danl J

It has been a lousy winter in Southern California. At this time two
years ago, Santa Ynez had 47 flights averaging 115 km.



Barny wrote:
Here's a summary of OLC winter flights 11/1/2008-2/14/2009, for what
it's worth:
Seminole Lake, FL 50
Warner Springs, CA 37
Moriarty, Albuquerque, NM 28
TSA, Dallas, TX 28
El Tiro, Tucson, AZ 26
Williams, CA 18
Chilhowee, TN 18
Grass Roots, Saratoga, FL 18
Hemet-Ryan, CA 17
Marion Co-Brown, GA? 11
Hollister, CA 11
Santa Ynez, 10
Byron, CA 8
Soar Club Huston, TX 8
Pierson, FL 6
FLF 4
Jean - Las Vegas, NV 2
Estrella, AZ 2
Mountain Valley, CA 1
Aqua Duice, 1
Pleasant Valley, Turf, AZ 1
Minden, NV 1
Air Sailing, 1

This is an interesting thread for warm weather dreamers like me.
I counted 2009 OLC flights (minus October) for warm parts of Regions
9-12. Many pilots don't post on OLC, so these stats are not very
scientific, but it shows there is year round flying.
Seminole Lake, FL 50
Warner Springs, CA 37
Moriarty, Albuquerque 28
TSA, Dallas, TX 28
El Tiro, Tucson, AZ 26
Boulder, CO (not warm) 22
Williams, CA 18
Chilhowee, TN 18
Saratoga, FL 18
Hemet-Ryan, CA 17
Marion Co-Brown 11
Hollister, CA 11
Santa Ynez, CA 10
Byron, CA 8
Soar Club Huston, TX 8
Bermuda High, SC 6
Alamogordo-white san 3
Jean - Las Vegas, NV 2
Estrella, AZ 2
Mountain Valley, CA 1
Aqua Duice, 1
Pleasant Valley,AZ 1
Minden, NV 1
Air Sailing 1
~Barny

On Feb 14, 9:50*pm, tienshanman tienshanman.
wrote:
Tim,

I have always been interested in Utah but have not been able to really
assess what it's like there with a family if you are not an LDS member.
I have heard that it can be socially limiting, a bit stifling. I was
wondering if you could comment on this.

--
tienshanman

Tienshanman,


As others have commented each place has pluses and minuses. We came
to Utah as non LDS about nine years ago. As with most states each
community is different, in any state there are places you would live
and places you would choose not to. As I said before I prefer
“college” towns because they tend to have a social atmosphere that is
different from most other towns. We had two children that were 4 and
10 at the time so it was a concern of ours, as well as how we would
like it here.

As it turn out it was a non-issue for the most part. Logan has a high
enough percent of population of non-LDS that we were able to find out
own circle of friends without any problems and our children have done
the same. As Mike said there is limited interaction between the LDS
and others mostly due to the time constraints that their religion
places on them. We do not have anyone trying to convert us to their
religion or other things like that. Logan has most of faiths
represented from the Catholic Church to a Synagogue. There are
Lutherans, Methodists and Buddhists.

For me the three areas of the state I would be most comfortable are
Logan, Salt Lake City and St. George. I don’t think I would want to
live in one of the small towns out of the Wasatch front and would
likely not want to live in the Prove/Orem area. But I grew up in
California and am considered a liberal, especially in Utah.

We feel much more comfortable here than in Minnesota, could not take
the “Minnesota Nice” that to the locals in a positive term, but to
outsiders is a negative. When it gets cold in the winter we always
say to ourselves it could be worse, we could be in Minnesota.

Utah has a reputation of being odd, but I think most of it was earned
twenty to thirty years ago; there have been many changes even in the
last nine years that I have been here. We will soon see a brew pub or
two in Logan and hopefully you won’t have to join a club to go in a
bar by next year.

We love the outdoors and being active. I live less than a mile from
the national forest boundary and a mile from a major university. The
local ski resort is only 27 miles away and I can get a season pass for
about $250 a year. Compare that price to what you would pay anywhere
else. One positive in Utah for the non-LDS is that the LDS can’t do
activities on Sunday so the ski resorts, hiking and biking trails,
movie theaters, etc are empty on Sundays. If we have more than a
minute wait in a lift line it is time to move to a different lift.
And yes it is the best snow on earth.

My top list in the west includes Boulder, CO, Fort Collins, CO, Logan,
UT, Albuquerque, NM, Ashland, OR/Montague, CA, Paradise/Chico, CA,
Reno, NV, PASCO, WA and Flagstaff, AZ. I picked the job site and
family friendly part first, but was looking at the soaring
possibilities when I came to Logan. Having a tow available was what
sealed the decision. I got lucky that the soaring was better than I
ever imagined and I am still learning about the potential each year.

tienshanman wrote:
I would appreciates some suggestions…..I am looking for the ideal place
to live in the US – for soaring (I have not told my wife how massively
weighted this particular criterion is!). I am overseas now and more
than likely we will return to the US this summer. I have spent hours on
the net researching places to live which have the best combination of
access to good flying, good schools (3 elem school age kids), a
critical mass of interesting people and culture and good weather. One
thing I do not want to do is drive anything more that about 15 – 20 min
to a glider field and I intend to buy a self launching glider if some
sort so I could presumably fly from a small, welcoming GA airport. I am
open to virtually any region. I’ve been gone for 14 yrs so I’m dealing
with a blank slate. What places should I consider? Why?


The US gliderport with the best year around soaring conditions is at
Warner Springs in the mountains northeast of San Diego. However, it is
more than a 20 minute drive from the amenities you are looking for.

You indicate you are willing to fly a motorglider out of a GA field,
which gives you a lot of options. There are several GA airports between
the coast and the mountains in California. You could live in a location
with a temperate coastal climate and all the features you desire, yet
not have to motor very far to get to excellent mountain soaring
conditions. For example, live in Ventura, base your plane at the
Camarillo or Oxnard airports, and it is only a 25 mile flight to
excellent soaring conditions in the mountains north of Ojai.

"tienshanman" wrote

What places should I consider? Why?

Two words: Austin. Texas.

Well, a few mo
- Year-round soaring possible (6 knots to 6,500 feet last week!)
- 10+ knot summer thermals
- Short, mild winters (50's to low 80's in Dec, Jan, & Feb; rare frosts &
freezes)
- Hot, dry summers (90's to low 100's in July & August)
- Showery springs full of wild flowers from March through mid-June
- Perfect fall weather usually lasts from mid-September to early December
- Palm trees (people were not designed to live where palm trees won't grow!)
- World-class university town
- Great schools
- Dynamic, multi-cultural community
- Vibrant arts scene
- Local soaring club with its own airfield
- Live music capital of the world!
- Lakes, rivers, trees, hills, parks, trails
- Easy access to Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, & Gulf beaches
- Relatively low cost of living
- Lots of local airports
- No state income tax
- Choice of urban, suburban, and rural lifestyles all within 30 mins of
downtown
- It's in Texas!
- Even better, it's in the Texas Hill Country!

TXBill






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Originally Posted by Tim Taylor

On Feb 14, 9:50*pm, tienshanman tienshanman.
wrote:
Tim,

I have always been interested in Utah but have not been able to really
assess what it's like there with a family if you are not an LDS member.
I have heard that it can be socially limiting, a bit stifling. I was
wondering if you could comment on this.

--
tienshanman

Tienshanman,


As others have commented each place has pluses and minuses. We came
to Utah as non LDS about nine years ago. As with most states each
community is different, in any state there are places you would live
and places you would choose not to. As I said before I prefer
“college” towns because they tend to have a social atmosphere that is
different from most other towns. We had two children that were 4 and
10 at the time so it was a concern of ours, as well as how we would
like it here.

As it turn out it was a non-issue for the most part. Logan has a high
enough percent of population of non-LDS that we were able to find out
own circle of friends without any problems and our children have done
the same. As Mike said there is limited interaction between the LDS
and others mostly due to the time constraints that their religion
places on them. We do not have anyone trying to convert us to their
religion or other things like that. Logan has most of faiths
represented from the Catholic Church to a Synagogue. There are
Lutherans, Methodists and Buddhists.

For me the three areas of the state I would be most comfortable are
Logan, Salt Lake City and St. George. I don’t think I would want to
live in one of the small towns out of the Wasatch front and would
likely not want to live in the Prove/Orem area. But I grew up in
California and am considered a liberal, especially in Utah.

We feel much more comfortable here than in Minnesota, could not take
the “Minnesota Nice” that to the locals in a positive term, but to
outsiders is a negative. When it gets cold in the winter we always
say to ourselves it could be worse, we could be in Minnesota.

Utah has a reputation of being odd, but I think most of it was earned
twenty to thirty years ago; there have been many changes even in the
last nine years that I have been here. We will soon see a brew pub or
two in Logan and hopefully you won’t have to join a club to go in a
bar by next year.

We love the outdoors and being active. I live less than a mile from
the national forest boundary and a mile from a major university. The
local ski resort is only 27 miles away and I can get a season pass for
about $250 a year. Compare that price to what you would pay anywhere
else. One positive in Utah for the non-LDS is that the LDS can’t do
activities on Sunday so the ski resorts, hiking and biking trails,
movie theaters, etc are empty on Sundays. If we have more than a
minute wait in a lift line it is time to move to a different lift.
And yes it is the best snow on earth.

My top list in the west includes Boulder, CO, Fort Collins, CO, Logan,
UT, Albuquerque, NM, Ashland, OR/Montague, CA, Paradise/Chico, CA,
Reno, NV, PASCO, WA and Flagstaff, AZ. I picked the job site and
family friendly part first, but was looking at the soaring
possibilities when I came to Logan. Having a tow available was what
sealed the decision. I got lucky that the soaring was better than I
ever imagined and I am still learning about the potential each year.

Tim, thanks for all of the good info on Logan. Because of your very objective assessment I'll put Logan way up on the list and defintely come by for a good look this summer when I plan to do the big home hunting journey. In the meantime I'll try to learn as much as I can about the area on the net. I also very much enjoy backcontry skiing and from what I can tell the mountains just E. of town are full of good places to tour with nice powder runs. I also still like to hike my paraglider up peaks and fly back down and I noticed a neat clip on youtube of a guy flying off of one of the peaks the edge of town and landing on a big lawn at the univ!

When it comes to Winter soaring, Blairstown, NJ is the best.

OLC airfield: #1

OLC champion: #1, #2, #6 and several in the top 25.(The #1 guy flys
1-26! )

OLC Club: #1 (Aeroclub Albatross)and #3 (1-26 Association)

Hilton Cup Champ flights made from there.
1000K flights made from there.

Ridge, wave and thermal flights

7 / 365 tow operation

Beautiful rural part of NJ, but not far from "civilization" (New York
City)

Cook