At The Movies - Airport 75.jpg (1/1)

AMC has been running the 'Airport' series lately.
Airport '79 was at the very least a chance to see the Concorde in house
markings. It was a laugh to see it do barrel rolls and loops...

"Mitchell Holman" wrote in message
. 130...

Bill & Ange said the following on 09/05/2009 23:14:
AMC has been running the 'Airport' series lately.
Airport '79 was at the very least a chance to see the Concorde in house
markings. It was a laugh to see it do barrel rolls and loops...

In reality Concorde had done a barrel roll in tests as was mentioned
in an old tv series called Reaching For The Skies. Shame it wasn't
filmed but I think that a 747 in tests which also did a barrel roll
was filmed.

"Richard Brooks" wrote in message
...
Bill & Ange said the following on 09/05/2009 23:14:
AMC has been running the 'Airport' series lately.
Airport '79 was at the very least a chance to see the Concorde in house
markings. It was a laugh to see it do barrel rolls and loops...

In reality Concorde had done a barrel roll in tests as was mentioned in an
old tv series called Reaching For The Skies. Shame it wasn't filmed but I
think that a 747 in tests which also did a barrel roll was filmed.


Interesting note: The Concorde (F-BTSC) used in the film was the same
aircraft that crashed.

"Dr.Smith" wrote in message
...

"Richard Brooks" wrote in message
...
Bill & Ange said the following on 09/05/2009 23:14:
AMC has been running the 'Airport' series lately.
Airport '79 was at the very least a chance to see the Concorde in house
markings. It was a laugh to see it do barrel rolls and loops...

In reality Concorde had done a barrel roll in tests as was mentioned in
an old tv series called Reaching For The Skies. Shame it wasn't filmed
but I think that a 747 in tests which also did a barrel roll was filmed.


Interesting note: The Concorde (F-BTSC) used in the film was the same
aircraft that crashed.

If anyone is interested, there is a video on YouTube with one of the pilots
talking about barrel rolling a Concorde. I'm a Concorde nut and thought I
knew as much as is possible without actually being a pilot, engineer,
designer, or mechanic who was directly involved with the aircraft. When I
saw the movie, I also laughed at the barrel roll scene. It seemed pure
Hollywood/preposterous. Imagine my surprise when I learned that it had
actually been done in a test flight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYQS3qAIjAo

ENJOY!

Nick

"Canuck" wrote in message
...

"Dr.Smith" wrote in message
...

"Richard Brooks" wrote in message
...
Bill & Ange said the following on 09/05/2009 23:14:
AMC has been running the 'Airport' series lately.
Airport '79 was at the very least a chance to see the Concorde in house
markings. It was a laugh to see it do barrel rolls and loops...

In reality Concorde had done a barrel roll in tests as was mentioned in
an old tv series called Reaching For The Skies. Shame it wasn't filmed
but I think that a 747 in tests which also did a barrel roll was filmed.


Interesting note: The Concorde (F-BTSC) used in the film was the same
aircraft that crashed.

If anyone is interested, there is a video on YouTube with one of the
pilots talking about barrel rolling a Concorde. I'm a Concorde nut and
thought I knew as much as is possible without actually being a pilot,
engineer, designer, or mechanic who was directly involved with the
aircraft. When I saw the movie, I also laughed at the barrel roll scene.
It seemed pure Hollywood/preposterous. Imagine my surprise when I learned
that it had actually been done in a test flight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYQS3qAIjAo

ENJOY!

Nick


I've always thought that just about ANY aeroplane is capable of being
barrel-rolled or looped provided that the manoeuvre is within the G limits
of the airframe. One famous occasion was Tex Johnson rolling the prototype
Boeing 707. In other words, if it is done properly no damage is sustained
but if you "bugger it up" it can only be done once!

Graham

"Graham Sheldon" wrote in message
news

"Canuck" wrote in message
...

"Dr.Smith" wrote in message
...

"Richard Brooks" wrote in message
...
Bill & Ange said the following on 09/05/2009 23:14:
AMC has been running the 'Airport' series lately.
Airport '79 was at the very least a chance to see the Concorde in
house markings. It was a laugh to see it do barrel rolls and loops...

In reality Concorde had done a barrel roll in tests as was mentioned in
an old tv series called Reaching For The Skies. Shame it wasn't filmed
but I think that a 747 in tests which also did a barrel roll was
filmed.


Interesting note: The Concorde (F-BTSC) used in the film was the same
aircraft that crashed.

If anyone is interested, there is a video on YouTube with one of the
pilots talking about barrel rolling a Concorde. I'm a Concorde nut and
thought I knew as much as is possible without actually being a pilot,
engineer, designer, or mechanic who was directly involved with the
aircraft. When I saw the movie, I also laughed at the barrel roll scene.
It seemed pure Hollywood/preposterous. Imagine my surprise when I learned
that it had actually been done in a test flight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYQS3qAIjAo

ENJOY!

Nick


I've always thought that just about ANY aeroplane is capable of being
barrel-rolled or looped provided that the manoeuvre is within the G limits
of the airframe. One famous occasion was Tex Johnson rolling the
prototype Boeing 707. In other words, if it is done properly no damage is
sustained but if you "bugger it up" it can only be done once!

Graham

Yes, I heard about the 707 being barrel rolled on a test flight apparently
with airline execs onboard. I wish there was more information about the
Concorde's barrel roll antics. That would have been an amazing sight. I
suppose if it was done gently rather than snap rolled, most any aircraft
could be rolled.

Take care,

Nick

"Canuck" wrote
Yes, I heard about the 707 being barrel rolled on a test flight
apparently with airline execs onboard. I wish there was more
information about the Concorde's barrel roll antics. That would have
been an amazing sight. I suppose if it was done gently rather than
snap rolled, most any aircraft could be rolled.

I post the following as a former Naval Aviator taught to perform precise
"barrel rolls" and as a retired PanAm pilot with 17 years of experience
flying the B-707.

Bob Moore

Unfortunately, the term "barrel roll" has become generic in useage, much
the same as "piper cub" is used to describe any unidentified small
airplane. I have later in this post included the Wikipedia definition of
"barrel roll" which is the same as that used by military and aerobatic
training organizations.

I have a video of Tex Johnston rolling the B-707 prototype and although
Tex himself calls it a "barrel roll", it does not meet the published
definition. To me, it looks like a sloppy "aileron roll". I doubt VERY
seriously that the Concorde was flown through a real "barrel roll"
despite the fact that the pilot, like Tex, called it a "barrel roll".
----------------------------------------------------------
Barrel roll
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about the aerial sport. For the military operation, see
Operation Barrel Roll.
A barrel roll occurs when an object (usually an airplane or roller
coaster) makes a complete rotation on its longitudinal axis while
following a helical path, approximately maintaining its original
direction. The G load is kept positive (but not constant) on the
aircraft throughout the maneuver, commonly not more than 2-3 G.

In aviation, the maneuver includes a constant variation of attitude in
all three axes, and at the midpoint (top) of the roll, the aircraft is
flying inverted, with the nose pointing at a 90-degree angle
("sideways") to the general path of flight. The term "barrel roll" is
frequently used, incorrectly, to refer to any roll by an airplane (see
aileron roll), or to a helical roll in which the nose remains pointed
generally along the flight path. In fact, the barrel roll is a specific
and difficult maneuver; a combination of a roll and a loop. It is not
used in aerobatic competition.
------------------------------------------------------------
William Kershner, a well known aerobatic instructor has written several
aviation books and includes the following in his book "The Flight
Instructor's Handbook" :

THE BARREL ROLL
•Explanation. The barrel roll is a precise maneuver in which
the airplane is rolled around an imaginary point 45° to
the original flight path. A positive-g level is maintained
throughout the maneuver, and the ball in the turn indicator
should stay in the middle.

This maneuver might be considered an exaggeration of the
wingover, but instead of starting to shallow the bank at the 90°
position, the pilot must steepen it continually until the airplane
has rolled 360° and is back on the original heading. The rate of
roll must be much greater than that used for the wingover
because the airplane must be in a vertical bank at 45° of turn,
and it must be inverted at 90° of turn. The roll and turn is
continued until the airplane is headed in the original direction with
the wings level. Compare the barrel roll in Fig. 23-12 with the
same view of the wingover in Fig. 20-7.

From behind the maneuver looks as though the airplane is being
flown around the outside of a barrel. This is a very good maneuver
for gaining confidence and keeping oriented while flying inverted in
balanced flight.
Good coordination is required to do the barrel roll properly and
the trainee will show an improvement in that area after a session of
barrel rolls.

The barrel roll is generally more difficult and precise than the
aileron roll, and he may have to work on this one awhile.

Why-
The barrel roll is one of the best maneuvers for improving orientation.

Unlike the other acrobatic maneuvers covered thus far, the barrel
roll requires a constantly changing bank and pitch (with attendant
changing airspeed) and a radical change in heading (90°) while the
airplane is rolling. The average trainee probably will be looking at the
wing tip at a time when he should be checking the nose, or vice versa.
When he is able to stay well oriented in the barrel roll, he is ready to
move on to the reverse Cuban eight or reverse cloverleaf.

How-
You might use the following explanation, or develop your own:
(1) Make sure the area is clear, then pick a reference on the horizon
off the wing tip as in the wingover and lazy eight.
(2) Set the throttle to low cruise rpm and ease the nose over to pick-
up about 10 K more than used for the wingover or set up the
airspeed used for a loop, whichever is higher. Power adjustment
should not be necessary during the maneuver. You might have
some of your sharper trainees apply full power as the airplane
approaches inverted and then remind them to throttle back as the
airspeed picks up in the last part of the maneuver.
(3) Smoothly pull the nose up and start a coordinated climbing turn
(note that it will have to be at a much faster rate than was used
for the wingover) toward the reference point. (Assume that at first
the roll will be to the left.)
(4) When the nose is 45° from the original heading, it should be at its
highest pitch attitude and the left bank should be vertical.
(5) When the nose is at 90° from the original heading, you should be
looking directly at the reference point that was originally off
the
wing tipfrom a completely inverted position (momentarily).
(6) When the airplane heading is again 45° from the original, the bank
is vertical but you will be in a right bank as far as the ground
is
concerned; that is, the right wing is pointing straight down at
this
instant of roll. The nose will be at its lowest pitch attitude at
this
point.
(7) The roll is continued to wings-level flight as the nose is raised
back
to the cruise attitude.

The maneuver must be symmetrical; the nose must go as far above the
horizon as below. The barrel roll requires definite checkpoints to
ensure
that the airplane is at the correct attitude throughout. It is
interesting
to note that if the barrel roll is to the left, all of the airplane's
path is to
the left of the original line of flight and the airplane's nose is
always
pointed to the left of the original flight line (until it merges again
at the
completion of the maneuver). The opposite occurs, naturally, for the
barrel roll to the right.

Another method of doing a barrel roll is to pick a reference on the
horizon, turn the airplane 45° to the reference point, and proceed to
make a wide roll around this real point. One disadvantage of this
method for the newcomer is that it depends on the pilot's own
judgment of how large the orbit around the point should be. For an
introduction to the maneuver, the first method is usually better, but
you
may prefer the second and work out your own techniques of instructing
it.

Demonstration.
Try not to lose the reference point yourself while demonstrating
this one. You may find your explanation is not keeping up with the
airplane, which usually results in sputtering and stuttering while the
maneuver proceeds to its foregone conclusion -and then you have
to do a new demonstration. Don't worry, this will happen plenty of
times during your career of instructing aerobatics -when your mouth
can't keep up with your brain or the maneuver-and it can ease tension
if you react to it with humor.

Usually the trainee is surprised to see the same wing tip back on the
reference point and may confess that, like the first snap roll, the
earth
and sky were blurred and he had no idea where the reference was
during the maneuver.

Practice.
You may rest assured the trainee will "lose" the reference point during
the first couple of barrel rolls. He'll usually stare over the nose,
seeing
nothing but blue sky or ground and not really seeing the point at all.

Common errors during barrel rolls include these:
1. Not pulling the nose high enough in the first 45° of the maneuver,
which means that the highest and lowest nose positions are not
symmetrical to the horizon.
2. Not maintaining a constant rate of roll. Usually things are fine at
the
45° position; the nose is at its highest pitch and the bank is
vertical.
As you approach the position of 90° of turn you will probably find
that he is not going to be completely inverted at that point and
will
have to rush things a bit to make it. The usual reason is that he
did
not maintain a constant rate of roll. Remember that the nose is up
and the airspeed is slower in this segment of the maneuver, so the
controls must be deflected more to get the same rate. This is where
coordination comes in. Watch for it in particular.
3. Letting the nose drop after passing the 90° point; losing too much
altitude and gaining excess airspeed.
4. Failure to roll out on the original heading; having the wing tip well
ahead, or well behind, the reference when the maneuver is completed.

Evaluation and Review.
Review each barrel roll briefly in the air, and have the trainee use
the model on the ground. This one can be hard to "see," so go over it
again as necessary after getting on the ground.

By the time a half-dozen barrel rolls have been practiced, the
average
trainee should be oriented throughout the maneuver even though he may
still have minor problems of heading and symmetry. After a dozen rolls
he should be starting to work on a constant roll rate and starting to
ease
his heading problems. After several hundred, he may begin to be
satisfied
with his barrel rolls but will realize that constant practice is
required.

"Robert Moore" wrote in message
5.247...
"Canuck" wrote
Yes, I heard about the 707 being barrel rolled on a test flight
apparently with airline execs onboard. I wish there was more
information about the Concorde's barrel roll antics. That would have
been an amazing sight. I suppose if it was done gently rather than
snap rolled, most any aircraft could be rolled.

I post the following as a former Naval Aviator taught to perform precise
"barrel rolls" and as a retired PanAm pilot with 17 years of experience
flying the B-707.

Bob Moore

Unfortunately, the term "barrel roll" has become generic in useage, much
the same as "piper cub" is used to describe any unidentified small
airplane. I have later in this post included the Wikipedia definition of
"barrel roll" which is the same as that used by military and aerobatic
training organizations.

I have a video of Tex Johnston rolling the B-707 prototype and although
Tex himself calls it a "barrel roll", it does not meet the published
definition. To me, it looks like a sloppy "aileron roll". I doubt VERY
seriously that the Concorde was flown through a real "barrel roll"
despite the fact that the pilot, like Tex, called it a "barrel roll".

Thanks Robert - learn something new every day!

"Sly Fox" wrote in message
u...

"Robert Moore" wrote in message
5.247...
"Canuck" wrote
Yes, I heard about the 707 being barrel rolled on a test flight
apparently with airline execs onboard. I wish there was more
information about the Concorde's barrel roll antics. That would have
been an amazing sight. I suppose if it was done gently rather than
snap rolled, most any aircraft could be rolled.

I post the following as a former Naval Aviator taught to perform precise
"barrel rolls" and as a retired PanAm pilot with 17 years of experience
flying the B-707.

Bob Moore

Unfortunately, the term "barrel roll" has become generic in useage, much
the same as "piper cub" is used to describe any unidentified small
airplane. I have later in this post included the Wikipedia definition of
"barrel roll" which is the same as that used by military and aerobatic
training organizations.

I have a video of Tex Johnston rolling the B-707 prototype and although
Tex himself calls it a "barrel roll", it does not meet the published
definition. To me, it looks like a sloppy "aileron roll". I doubt VERY
seriously that the Concorde was flown through a real "barrel roll"
despite the fact that the pilot, like Tex, called it a "barrel roll".

Thanks Robert - learn something new every day!



The Russians version of the Concorde did a barrel roll into the ground.