Opinions wanted

Subject: Opinions wanted
From: "Paul J. Adam"
Date: 1/6/04 12:32 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

In message , ArtKramr
writes
Subject: Opinions wanted
From: Mark and Kim Smith
I'm not saying they were legal targets or not. I'm just giving the
"extremely" short story of Schaffhausen.

You peeked. (grin)

Sounds more Swiss than Swedish. Other than that I'm going to be a good
boy and play by Art's rules - it's a good game and I don't want to spoil
it.

--

Right ! Never spoil the fun.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

So selling weapons/weapon parts to conflicts makes you and your
workforce
legal targets? Well actually the workforce, their families and basically
everyone that happens to live in that city.
If Germany would have bombed cities in USA to rubble before decleration
of
war you would have accepted it because, hey there were aiding the allied
war effort?
Obviously Germany didn't have capacity for that, but that is just an
example.

Well, the Hun *did* bomb substantial parts of British cities to rubble.

Outside London, Coventry and Liverpool spring readily to mind.

So were London, Coventry and Liverpool neutral countries?

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
I am going to outline a real situaitoin that occured during WW II.
I would
like to hear opinions and solutions as to how the situation should
be handled.
I will give the real solutuion that was imposed during the war after
a week or
so when many opinions have been offered.

There was a large factory producing torpedo gyroscopes and timeing
devices
for the German submarine service. It was located in the midst of a
very
populated area where the highly skilled workers lived with their
families.
These workers were near irreplaceable. It took many years to learn
the needed
skills, and without these workers production and quality would
have been
dramatically down graded. One more point. This factory was not in
any country
with which America or England was at war. What would you have done?
Remember
these German torpedoes were slaughtering American and British
seamen and
denying food and arms to England. What would you have done?
Opinions?

Should Germany have been bombing the USA for supplying arms to the UK
prior to 1942?
Should Germany have been targeting the US destroyers secretly
escorting UK convoys for nearly 1 year prior to war?

It seems to me you bomb a neutral country if you can get away with it
and the USA could get away with it. Whereas Germany was desperatly
trying to avoid confrontation with the USA.

The rest is just a moralising fog to hide double standards.

Most of the raids on Switzerland (Nearly 100) were for the usual
reasons: the bombers got lost and bombed the wrong city in the wrong
country.

Switzerland was pretty steadfastly neutral in most cases. In this
instance of the "torpedo timers" it may have simply been a case of
surreptious deals between private companies the Swiss government was
not aware of or even warned of.







Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: Opinions wanted
From: "The Enlightenment"
Date: 1/6/04 2:16 PM Pacific

Whereas Germany was desperatly
trying to avoid confrontation with the USA.

Not from where I sat they weren't.
Where the hell were you sitting?


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

From: "The Enlightenment"

snip

Whereas Germany was desperatly
trying to avoid confrontation with the USA.

Then why did Germany declare war on the United States 11 December 1941?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

The rest is just a moralising fog to hide double standards.

So why ask for opinions ****-stick?

B2431 wrote:

From: "The Enlightenment"

snip

Whereas Germany was desperatly
trying to avoid confrontation with the USA.

Then why did Germany declare war on the United States 11 December 1941?

to no small part, because the Germans had an agreement with the
Japanese. But regarding the German desire to avoid the issue, that is
very true, as there had been several incidents, including a sunken US
Destroyer and at least one sunken U-boat, that the Germans and the US
could have used to declare war on each other before then.

"tadaa" wrote in message ...


So were London, Coventry and Liverpool neutral countries?



No but Holland was and that didnt prevent Rotterdam being bombed
by the Luftwaffe

Keith

"steve gallacci" wrote in message
...


B2431 wrote:

From: "The Enlightenment"

snip

Whereas Germany was desperatly
trying to avoid confrontation with the USA.

Then why did Germany declare war on the United States 11 December 1941?

to no small part, because the Germans had an agreement with the
Japanese.

The Germans had no agreement that required them to declare war on any
country that Japan attacked.

(B2431) wrote in message ...
From: "The Enlightenment"

snip

Whereas Germany was desperatly
trying to avoid confrontation with the USA.

Then why did Germany declare war on the United States 11 December 1941?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Prior to this not only was the USA trading extensively with the UK
(understandable) but was supplying the UK with vast amounts of arms
and munitions. (Many were wheeled across the border to Canada
however)

The USA not only supplied arms but Roosvelt had the USN escort the
Convoys with destroyers which protected then against the German navy.
U boats were being attacked and sunk.

Roosvelt did everything short of basing US forces in British soil to
provok the Germans and this at a time when most Americans were for
being steadfastly neutral.

The Case for Pearl Harbor Revisionism
http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/vo...arlharbor.html

Under the terms of the armistice of 1917 the naval and trade blockade
was to be immediatly lifted against Germany. Inorder to force Germany
into harsh terms the terms of the armistice were violated. In that
period over 1 million Germans starved to death. That leaves a lasting
impression. The convoy war was nothing in comparison to this.