Why was the USAF.....................

In article ,
Mike Marron writes:
OXMORON1 wrote:
Mike Marron wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the USAF an integral part of the
intelligence community? If yes, then doesn't the USAF share the
blame for 9/11?

Yes the USAF has a place within the intelligence community, but they/it is
primarily tasked with intelligence matters concerning air warfare.

Don't look now, but since 9/11 the USAF has been flying CAP over
American cities. Now, why do you s'pose that is?

As a sop to the fears of the General Public, and most of the
politicians, who have a hard time understanding stuff like "Realistic
Threat Assessment", but do understand that they feel better if the can
"See that Something is Being Done."

The likelihod of the next large-scale terrorist attack mirriring the
last one is very, very small.

Before you snap back, IIRC the FBI,CIA, INS and Dept of the Treasury are
primarily concerned with areas from which the attack came.

So, the USAF is exempt from any blame whatsoever for the 9/11 attacks?

Until the moment that the first airplane flew into the WTC, it was
just another hijacking. The airplane was going to land somewhere, and
it would get dealt with on the ground. Up to that point, hijackings
had been done for publicity, and to try to gain some sort of lever to
pry some concession from somebody.

Also under your accusation the Coast Guard Aux., Army, Navy, Air Force Reserve,
National Guard screwed up, so did Barney Fife and the officer responsible for
intelligence in the Talequah. OK PD.
Under your reasoning, I am responsible for the outcome in the Unpleasantness
during the SEA wargames. And no, I was not an intelligence type, just your
ordinary navigator, but one bomb might have missed the Command Staff of the
Vietnamese Freedom Loving Good Guys.

You can continue to misconstrue what I wrote and put words in my
mouth, but my contention is simply that the USAF, along with the
various civilian U.S. intelligence agencies, dropped the ball BIG time
on 9/11.

You can say that about anything that takes us by surprise. And
something else will, in the future, as well. Unforunately, it's one
of the misfortunes of the Intelligence Biz. The Hell's Angels motto
pretty much sums it up: "When we do right, nobody hears about it.
WHen we do wrong, everybody hears about it."

There's plenty of blame to go around, I'll agree with that - but in
order to create teh sort of fully integrated monitoring system
required to ensure that nobody plots anything nefarious again...
Well, truth to tell, I wouldn't want to like in tht sort of society.
Stalin, and Saddam come close, but the plots got cooked up anyway, and
the only thing that suffered was the normal folks. Not a good
trade-off, to my mind.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

"Clark" stillnospam@me wrote in message
...

Have you seen the Brett Farve commercial about telling people what they
should have done?


It's Favre.

In article ,
"David Hartung" wrote:

"Gene Storey" wrote in message
news:zE1Lb.9465$6l1.4352@okepread03...

I would have NYC ringed by Patriot batteries, and anything above
250 knots that isn't on a flight plan should be terminated. Error
on the side of those on the ground.

In the pre 911 world, how would you have justified such draconian actions?

In the pre 9/11 world, the folks who are griping about why we didn't
stop the attacks would have been *screaming* about the "useless expense"
of those combat air patrols.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

Chad Irby wrote:


In the pre 9/11 world, the folks who are griping about why we didn't
stop the attacks would have been *screaming* about the "useless expense"
of those combat air patrols.


Of course!...most people need something to bitch about after
all...
--

-Gord.

In article ,
"Gord Beaman" ) wrote:

Chad Irby wrote:

In the pre 9/11 world, the folks who are griping about why we didn't
stop the attacks would have been *screaming* about the "useless expense"
of those combat air patrols.

Of course!...most people need something to bitch about after
all...

Hell, I've known adult humans - I'm not calling them "grown-ups" - who
would look you straight in the eye and tell you, seriously, that the
United States doesn't need a military, period.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...
"Pete" wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:


And you still haven't answered my question. One more time, are you
saying that the USAF is exempt from sharing any blame for 9/11?


I will answer it. Absolutely the Air Force is blameless. The USAF does not
(did not) defend the US from its own civilian airliners. Duh! It was a
failure of the INS, FBI, FAA and other organizations who allowed the
situation to develop. To blame the Air Force is like blaming the fire
department for not stopping an arsonist. It was there to put the fire out
(endless CAP mission ever since), but it could not have prevented it. Or
why not blame the Army for not having a AAA battery stationed in NY or DC.
Or why not blame the Navy for not having a ship on the Potomac or in NY
harbor that could have prevented it.

In what far fetched way could the USAF have prevented 9/11?

Clark stillnospam@me wrote:
Mike Marron wrote:

So, the USAF is exempt from any blame whatsoever for the 9/11 attacks?

Have you seen the Brett Farve commercial about telling people what they
should have done?

Uhh, no.

Do you see any similarity between your comments and "monday
morning quarterbacking"?

Again, my answer is "no." Answering a question with a question is a
transparent method of dodging the original question. Furthur, this has
nothing to do with any "monday morning quarterbacking." Even after
the event more than two years later, what happened on 9/11 is still to
this day almost impossible to comprehend. AFAIK, nobody knew
what was about to happen back on Sept. 11, 2001, but that's the
whole point! In my ever-so-humble opinion, ALL branches of the
military INCLUDING our beloved USAF and also our so-called
"intelligence" communities quite frankly dropped the ball BIG
time, just like I said. Granted, the stunning victories by our
military and intelligence communities in Afghanistan and also in the
more recent "Shock & Awe" campaign in Iraq is fantastic news,
but this good news will forever be tempered by the thousands
who died during the WTC and Pentagon attacks on 9/11.

"mg" wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:

And you still haven't answered my question. One more time, are you
saying that the USAF is exempt from sharing any blame for 9/11?

I will answer it. Absolutely the Air Force is blameless.

Fine. But I couldn't possibly disagree more.

The USAF does not (did not) defend the US from its own civilian airliners. Duh!

You can bet your sweet bippy that the USAF is shadowing some U.S.
airliners NOW.

It was a failure of the INS, FBI, FAA and other organizations who allowed the
situation to develop.

Doubtful even the military brass in the Pentagon would agree with that
statement and would readily accept some of the blame for 9/11.

To blame the Air Force is like blaming the fire department for not stopping
an arsonist.

Poor analogy. The Air Force is not entirely to blame for what happened
to 9/11, but it's not absolutely blameless either.

It was there to put the fire out (endless CAP mission ever since),
but it could not have prevented it.

Given better intelligence, the USAF could have easily prevented it.

Or why not blame the Army for not having a AAA battery stationed in NY or DC.
Or why not blame the Navy for not having a ship on the Potomac or in NY
harbor that could have prevented it.

Actually, you're absolutely right. Why not blame the Army or Navy?

In what far fetched way could the USAF have prevented 9/11?

A preemptive strike, perhaps? Recall the Israeli attack on the Osiraq
nuclear powerplant near Baghdad back in 1981.

Chad Irby wrote:


Hell, I've known adult humans - I'm not calling them "grown-ups" - who
would look you straight in the eye and tell you, seriously, that the
United States doesn't need a military, period.

That'd be funny if it didn't reveal how little some people know
about human nature. As good as it might sound if we all were to
stick flowers in our hair and feed each other grapes while we
lolled around on some sunny warm beach in the tropics it wouldn't
be long till someone took offense at someone for popping a
slightly over-ripe grape in his mouth, snarled at her, was
snarled at in turn by some tough who had a letch for her, etc etc
etc..

The human animal has a competitive streak that cannot be
suppressed without making us inhuman, therefore we'll always need
armed forces, always. We need that competition, without it we
aren't human.
--

-Gord.

Mark and Kim Smith wrote:

[snip]

Question: Your are in charge of the air force in 2001. What would you
have done to prevent 9/11 from occuring?

Pre-9/11 Intelligence or *today's* beefed up Intelligence and Homeland
Security?