More Panel computers.....

The Installation of XCSoar is not difficult at all, its just that the
documentation is not quite a step by step process.

The basics are that you (for a PDA or PC install):

1) Download the right version for the right device

2) Unip the download

3) Run the install

At this point it is installed and working.

4) Next steps would be to get supporting files such as Waypoints
(turnpoint exchange),
Airspace(turnpoint exchange), Polars(WinPilot), Terrain & Topology
(XCSoar site).

5) Then go through the ~14-25 setup pages and set your preferences.
Most things are good with the defaults, the most important iand only
essential page is the File section where you select your files
downloaded in step 5.

The PNA version is the same, but you load everything onto the
removable Memory Card.

Then if you reboot the PNA with the Memory card inserted you get
XCSoar, or with it out you get the OEM Navigation software the PNA
came with.

Just copy a friends Memory Chip and you are in business immediately.

The documentation is not so crystal clear but having done it a few
times its a snap now.

Ray


On Sep 16, 11:05*am, tstock wrote:
Many people will choose to buy an entire package ready to go with
instructions over locating and assembling hopefully compatible devices
themselves and struggling through the learning curve. *Interestingly
enough, my confusion over which devices and software are required to
run XCSOAR is how I ended up in this thread today in the first place.

Tom

Don't forget to look at FlyWithCE Navigator http://www.flywithce.com/

You can use it for free also... same price as XCSoar

and not some trial version that alerts you every 2 minutes to tell you it's
not the real stuff.....it isn't a trial "simulator version, but one you can
actually fly with and use...and it's not a trial version you can only run on
a PC to see if you like it....it's the real stuff.

The PDA set-ups are still about the best bargain there is..they do just
about everything a $2000-$3000 or more computer can do for a fraction of the
cost...
FlyWithCE Navigator is really very good, easy to use PDA software....and you
can use it for free also...just like free XCSoar...
You can buy FlyWithCE Navigator also....but....it is free and 100%
functional for the first 30 days...same as if you buy it....but...after 30
days it's still free and functional..you lose only some extra features, that
if you want you can get by simply buying the software for about 1/2 the
cost of any other commercially sold glider software....what you lose with
the free version after 30 days is IGC* (not approved, but then none of the
PDA flight files are) flight file storage, the ability to select pre-planned
tasks, BitMap (sectional chart) display...and that's about it....everything
else works, just the same as if you had purchased it....and to most of us,
the free version is all we want....
I've used most of the other PDA software and FlyWithCE is IMHO far easier to
use that all of the others, far more intuative than others.
As for support, Uros has always been terrific and answering questions and
making changes if somene pointed out something useful to ad or change..and
thougn I don't have on-line support to sell you, I think any number of my
FlyWithCE Customers will tell you that I too have spent plenty of time with
them, walking them through set-up, showing them where to find data and even
installing the software "ready-to-fly" complete with their glider polars,
databases, even pilot names and contest numbers all registered to the
software when they bought PDA packages and even when they simply wanted to
try it.
It's good stuff...I use it myself and that's why I support it and offer
it...
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/FlyWithCE%20options.htm
tim

Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com

On Sep 16, 4:13*pm, jb92563 wrote:
The Installation of XCSoar is not difficult at all, its just that the
documentation is not quite a step by step process.

The basics are that you (for a PDA or PC install):

1) Download the right version for the right device

2) Unip the download

3) Run the install

At this point it is installed and working.

4) Next steps would be to get supporting files such as Waypoints
(turnpoint exchange),
Airspace(turnpoint exchange), Polars(WinPilot), Terrain & Topology
(XCSoar site).

5) Then go through the ~14-25 setup pages and set your preferences.
Most things are good with the defaults, the most important iand only
essential page is the File section where you select your files
downloaded in step 5.

The PNA version is the same, but you load everything onto the
removable Memory Card.

Then if you reboot the PNA with the Memory card inserted you get
XCSoar, or with it out you get the OEM Navigation software the PNA
came with.

Just copy a friends Memory Chip and you are in business immediately.

The documentation is not so crystal clear but having done it a few
times its a snap now.

Ray

Nothing against XCSoar; I've been "flying" it for several weeks in
the car and in my armchair. It's very good. However, to describe the
installation process on my HP310 as "a snap" or anything approximating
"intuitive" would be a stretch. I'm in the software business for a
living and can usually figure out how to install just about anything,
but this one was a stretch.

It's one of the problems of separating the hardware from the
software. With so many different user interfaces and "flavors" of OS
layered in devices, each one becomes (to a certain extent) a custom
install. It really did take me about 6 hours (including lots of
googling, newsgroup checking, corresponding) before I got it up and
running. This before I got into configuring and/or adding maps,
airspace, etc. I probably had about 8 hours invested to get to the
point whereI was playing around with the detailed configuration. I'm
actually not sure I could do it again right now if I had to. If I
look at the value of my personal time (or apply my usual billing rate
to the install), it was a very expensive piece of equipment.

If I look at the "average" glider pilot in my club, he/she couldn't
install it. Tell them to "icopy the executable to the root directory
of the SD card", and you'll get the look of a dog staring at
thunder.

Long winded post to basically say "I love XCSoar, but it take a fair
amount of personal investment to get a usable system out of it right
now". There's certainly a market for someone to simplify the build and
install process.

P3

On Sep 16, 9:19*am, "Paul Remde" wrote:
Hi Ed,

You are correct to a certain extent. *I don't know much about XCSoar because
I don't sell it. *Since it's free I can't sell it. *I'm not trying to avoid
it or push only products I can sell, but there is no motivation for me to
spend my time trying to figure it out. *Every time I've gone to the XCSoar
web site I have been unable to find clear information that would help me
install it on my PDA or PNA. *I'm a pretty technical person and the web site
is not intuitive to me.

It if was easy to install then maybe I would include it in my newsletter,
but my impression is that it is not easy to install and therefore mainly for
high tech glider pilots that can work their way through the installation,
etc.

I'm glad that some glider pilots like it. *That is fine. *More power to
them. *I'm not getting rich selling soaring software. *However, I am
sincerely a fan of the soaring software I sell and support. *I think it is
great and worth every penny. *Some glider pilots will choose to buy SeeYou
Mobile, Glide Navigator II or pocket*StrePla and some will choose the free
software.

On the other hand, I do a lot of paid support for Glide Navigator II and
SeeYou Mobile customers. *They seem to appreciate that I can walk them
through installing the using the software. *I suppose I could get paid to do
the same for XCSoar. *Perhaps I just need to dig into it and get familiar
with it so I can support it. *But so far my attempts to get to know it have
ended in frustration. *I hear it is neat software, but the level of effort
required doesn't seem worth it to me. *Of course, once I got over the
initial hurdles I imagine I would find it less difficult than I anticipated.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde

"Ed Winchester" wrote in message

...



Let's throw another one into this mix.

I have one of these which I use for flying my Warrior:
http://www.aviationsafety.com/flight_cheetahfl190.html
It's based on this Samsung Display:
http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/o...ing/ultra-mobi...
Samsung doesn't list a display brightness on the specs page, but having
used it numerous times in the air, I've never seen screen brightness to be
a problem. *But with all these devices which have been lately pointed out
here, how do you fit the thing into a glider cockpit?

But what I actually fly with is a Nokia 500 PNA, which I bought off eBay
for $110. *I unlocked it and loaded XCSoar on it, along with a whole group
of software called MioPocket. *And, it still has all its original PNA
functionality. *Yes, screen brightness is a slight problem, but I can live
with it as is.

Actually, some of the stuff I've seen written lately is upsetting me a
bit. *You have nice, informative articles by Mr. Remde in Gliding
International, and maybe even in Soaring, but they don't mention XCSoar as
software to use. *I've been using it for more than a year and can't
imagine something else I'd want it to do. *I also own PocketStrepla
running on an Axim X51v which is no better, if as good. *I'm sure Paul's
(and other writer's) writing is biased by trying to sell the products that
make him a living, and he gets nothing from XCSoar.

Ed

wrote:
This one was pointed out to me and at $425 looks like it will give us
what we need.....

http://www.wdlsystems.com/downloads/specs/1EPDX5U_s.pdf

Cheers

Al

Good one Paul - you run a business, not a charity. I could see
including the OSS products in a comparison table, but they have to
make it worth doing by at least publishing a coherent spec sheet.
Thsi sort of marketing

I've used a lot of open source software, on my PC and on my glide
computer. While they are impressive in terms of the functionality
they have been able to integrate. I find the "fit and finish" in the
UI and some functions to be less than I'd prefer - even in the current
versions. If they get really good I'd consider one, or if the
continued development and support from the commercial products I use
starts to decline. I can't say that price in this category is a huge
decision factor for me as it is such a small portion of my overall
annual expenses for the sport.

9B

On Sep 16, 5:21*pm, Papa3 wrote:
On Sep 16, 4:13*pm, jb92563 wrote:





The Installation of XCSoar is not difficult at all, its just that the
documentation is not quite a step by step process.

The basics are that you (for a PDA or PC install):

1) Download the right version for the right device

2) Unip the download

3) Run the install

At this point it is installed and working.

4) Next steps would be to get supporting files such as Waypoints
(turnpoint exchange),
Airspace(turnpoint exchange), Polars(WinPilot), Terrain & Topology
(XCSoar site).

5) Then go through the ~14-25 setup pages and set your preferences.
Most things are good with the defaults, the most important iand only
essential page is the File section where you select your files
downloaded in step 5.

The PNA version is the same, but you load everything onto the
removable Memory Card.

Then if you reboot the PNA with the Memory card inserted you get
XCSoar, or with it out you get the OEM Navigation software the PNA
came with.

Just copy a friends Memory Chip and you are in business immediately.

The documentation is not so crystal clear but having done it a few
times its a snap now.

Ray

Nothing against XCSoar; *I've been "flying" it for several weeks in
the car and in my armchair. It's very good. *However, to describe the
installation process on my HP310 as "a snap" or anything approximating
"intuitive" would be a stretch. * I'm in the software business for a
living and can usually figure out how to install just about anything,
but this one was a stretch.

It's one of the problems of separating the hardware from the
software. *With so many different user interfaces and "flavors" of OS
layered in devices, each one becomes (to a certain extent) a custom
install. It really did take me about 6 hours (including lots of
googling, newsgroup checking, corresponding) before I got it up and
running. * This before I got into configuring and/or adding maps,
airspace, etc. * I probably had about 8 hours invested to get to the
point whereI was playing around with the detailed configuration. * I'm
actually not sure I could do it again right now if I had to. *If I
look at the value of my personal time (or apply my usual billing rate
to the install), it was a very expensive piece of equipment.

If I look at the "average" glider pilot in my club, he/she couldn't
install it. * Tell them to "icopy the executable to the root directory
of the SD card", and you'll get the look of a dog staring at
thunder.

Long winded post to basically say "I love XCSoar, but it take a fair
amount of personal investment to get a usable system out of it right
now". There's certainly a market for someone to simplify the build and
install process.

P3

Paul,

In Tech Column a few months ago Bill Column did an article on XC Soar
and basically said what you just did. It is for the Tech Savy pilot,
or pilots who have tech savy friends to get them up to
speed............and then it's up to the user to sit and play with the
device for awhile to get handy with it.

What I have now is XC Soar running on my iPAQ 310, and running on my
Compaq 3850 PDA, both are installed on their respective SD cards with
backups on my PC.

Cheers,
Brad

In article
,
tstock wrote:

Hi Paul, while you cannot sell the software directly, I believe you
could legally sell a kit including PDA, GPS, etc, and include a CD
with the software along with setup and configuration instructions as
part of the kit. You just make it clear that you are not selling the
software itself, only providing it with the PDA as a convenience, and
that it can be downloaded from (site) for free.

Actually it would be fine to sell the software itself, without anything
else to go with it. XCSoar is licensed under the GNU General Public
License which allows selling copies. What it does is force you to allow
buyers to distribute more copies without permission from you, which is a
bit of an unusual business model when it comes to selling software, and
could make it hard to make much money at it. You're also obligated to
either provide the source code along with the program or provide a
written offer to provide the source code upon request.

In short: it would be perfectly fine to charge for a ready-to-go XCSoar
package, but it'll be legal for a buyer to make a thousand copies to
give to all of his closest friends too.

If you're interested in the full mumbo jumbo about it, more information
is available he

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

I have been using Winpilot, SeeyouMobile and XCSoar

I just want to point out the following regarding XCSoar. There is the
actual installation of the programm which is in my opinion reasonably
straight forward if you pick the right version for your PDA or PNA.
However the actual configuration of the programm is more tedious and
takes the time. You need to print out the manual and go through it
step by step and this admittetly is what is taking the time as the
choices in my opinion are more extensive than other programms.

Bruno

But what I actually fly with is a Nokia 500 PNA, which I bought off eBay
for $110. *I unlocked it and loaded XCSoar on it, along with a whole
group of software called MioPocket. *And, it still has all its original
PNA functionality. *Yes, screen brightness is a slight problem, but I
can live with it as is.

Just found one for $70 shipped on ebay also. Brand new.

Tom

On Sep 15, 11:20*pm, "
wrote:
This one was pointed out to me and at $425 looks like it will give us
what we need.....

http://www.wdlsystems.com/downloads/specs/1EPDX5U_s.pdf

Cheers

Al

How about this little one in your panel. Touch screen even.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/07/apple-tablet/