Youth in soaring, and anything

I have just seen an unscientific poll on a guitar forum that I found
fascinating, and not because of what it means for playing guitars. In
this poll, almost 41% of those responding were between the ages of 50
and 59. The next largest group, 40-49, is at only 18%.

Like most, if not all of us here, I am a glider pilot. For years
people within the sport (myself included) have been moaning about the
lack of young people coming into soaring. It seems that soaring is
becoming a sport for gray beards.

Yet soaring is not alone because all aviation is seeing the same kind
of shrinking numbers.

Now admittedly, aviation is not a poor man's activity but something
else is at work and I do not know what it is.

It seems that every sailplane, and even, power plane modeler I see is
middle aged. Very few kids.

I also am a motorcyclist and I have seen reports that it too is
becoming (if not has become) an activity for middle-aged people with
few younger people coming up behind.

Name an activity, and the numbers are the same except one.

The numbers reverse if we talk about computer-based activities.
Although some of the early geeks are soon becoming middle aged, they
seem to be a minority.

What accounts for this dichotomy? I can understand how, as you age,
that computer activities may become less engrossing. But I do not
understand why younger people are abandoning these other activities.
We may stand to lose some of the traditional activities if the trend
continues.

Does anyone have an answer? I don't.

On Dec 17, 3:29*am, raulb wrote:
I have just seen an unscientific poll on a guitar forum that I found
fascinating, and not because of what it means for playing guitars. *In
this poll, almost 41% of those responding were between the ages of 50
and 59. *The next largest group, 40-49, is at only 18%.

Like most, if not all of us here, I am a glider pilot. *For years
people within the sport (myself included) have been moaning about the
lack of young people coming into soaring. *It seems that soaring is
becoming a sport for gray beards.

Yet soaring is not alone because all aviation is seeing the same kind
of shrinking numbers.

Now admittedly, aviation is not a poor man's activity but something
else is at work and I do not know what it is.

It seems that every sailplane, and even, power plane modeler I see is
middle aged. *Very few kids.

I also am a motorcyclist and I have seen reports that it too is
becoming (if not has become) an activity for middle-aged people with
few younger people coming up behind.

Name an activity, and the numbers are the same except one.

The numbers reverse if we talk about computer-based activities.
Although some of the early geeks are soon becoming middle aged, they
seem to be a minority.

What accounts for this dichotomy? *I can understand how, as you age,
that computer activities may become less engrossing. *But I do not
understand why younger people are abandoning these other activities.
We may stand to lose some of the traditional activities if the trend
continues.

Does anyone have an answer? *I don't.

One explanation seems to be ready easy access to highly entertaining
toys at low prices. The obvious lure of instant gratification. The
good news is that not all stay satisfied wityh shallow entertainment.
I have seen, in our club, a number of young people, who get hooked on
flying the simulator, and then want to do the real thing.One of my
current students, who is "old' at 16, thinks a fun afternoon is flying
a 747 from San Farancisco to Chicago or someplace on the sim- go
figure.
Our club has 29 junior members(some more active than others) out of a
total of just under 100.
One thing I am very sure of is that it is important for a young person
coming into the sport to not feel like he or she is the only kid. We
pair the new kids up right away with one of the others so they feel
quickly like they fit in.
As you allude- the other easy catch market is the person who now has
their kids launched and wants to go have some fun.
FWIW
UH

From what I've seen youth programs seem to be doing OK, it's the 25-35
year olds that are scarce. Getting them is a tough one, anyone know
if the soaring kids return after 35?

On Dec 17, 2:20*pm, wrote:
As you allude- the other easy catch market is the person who now has
their kids launched and wants to go have some fun.
FWIW
UH

There's a slightly younger variant of that, who might therefore be
ensnared slightly earlier: someone
- with a teenager that is spreading their wings and becoming
interested in "the wrong things" (e.g. shopping malls
- who would like to extend the time that their offspring
wants to do something with their father

Worked for me and my daughter, I'm pleased to say!

On Dec 17, 7:22*am, Tom Gardner wrote:
On Dec 17, 2:20*pm, wrote:

As you allude- the other easy catch market is the person who now has
their kids launched and wants to go have some fun.
FWIW
UH

There's a slightly younger variant of that, who might therefore be
ensnared slightly earlier: someone
* - with a teenager that is spreading their wings and becoming
* * interested in "the wrong things" (e.g. shopping malls
* - who would like to extend the time that their offspring
* * wants to do something with their father

Worked for me and my daughter, I'm pleased to say!

My $.02
We get a fair number of young people in the under 18 y/o age bracket,
then almost none in the 18 - 25(ish) age group. I think initial
exposure is a factor, but MONEY is a huge issue. The very young
people are introduced to soaring (for the most part) by parents or
relatives who also pay for their flying. By age 18, they're usually
pretty much one their own for flying expenses. It's not until later
(sometimes much later) that they can again afford to get and stay
involved in soaring. In my case, I always wanted to fly. I just
couldn't afford it until I was in my very late 40's.

On Dec 17, 4:08*pm, Uncle Fuzzy wrote:
On Dec 17, 7:22*am, Tom Gardner wrote:

On Dec 17, 2:20*pm, wrote:

As you allude- the other easy catch market is the person who now has
their kids launched and wants to go have some fun.
FWIW
UH

There's a slightly younger variant of that, who might therefore be
ensnared slightly earlier: someone
* - with a teenager that is spreading their wings and becoming
* * interested in "the wrong things" (e.g. shopping malls
* - who would like to extend the time that their offspring
* * wants to do something with their father

Worked for me and my daughter, I'm pleased to say!

My $.02
We get a fair number of young people in the under 18 y/o age bracket,
then almost none in the 18 - 25(ish) age group. *I think initial
exposure is a factor, but MONEY is a huge issue. *The very young
people are introduced to soaring (for the most part) by parents or
relatives who also pay for their flying. *By age 18, they're usually
pretty much one their own for flying expenses. It's not until later
(sometimes much later) that they can again afford to get and stay
involved in soaring. *In my case, I always wanted to fly. I just
couldn't afford it until I was in my very late 40's.

Personally I'm not convinced that money is the main reason for the
18-40 hole.
Over here, clubs are much not very far away (less petrol) and winch
launches
are cheap - typically 3 launches or an hour in the air take about 3
hours
work to earn.

I suspect that moving away from home to work/university, the other
gender,
family responsibilities, hours in the week, and other interests are
more significant.

On Dec 17, 9:44*am, Tom Gardner wrote:
On Dec 17, 4:08*pm, Uncle Fuzzy wrote:



On Dec 17, 7:22*am, Tom Gardner wrote:

On Dec 17, 2:20*pm, wrote:

As you allude- the other easy catch market is the person who now has
their kids launched and wants to go have some fun.
FWIW
UH

There's a slightly younger variant of that, who might therefore be
ensnared slightly earlier: someone
* - with a teenager that is spreading their wings and becoming
* * interested in "the wrong things" (e.g. shopping malls
* - who would like to extend the time that their offspring
* * wants to do something with their father

Worked for me and my daughter, I'm pleased to say!

My $.02
We get a fair number of young people in the under 18 y/o age bracket,
then almost none in the 18 - 25(ish) age group. *I think initial
exposure is a factor, but MONEY is a huge issue. *The very young
people are introduced to soaring (for the most part) by parents or
relatives who also pay for their flying. *By age 18, they're usually
pretty much one their own for flying expenses. It's not until later
(sometimes much later) that they can again afford to get and stay
involved in soaring. *In my case, I always wanted to fly. I just
couldn't afford it until I was in my very late 40's.

Personally I'm not convinced that money is the main reason for the
18-40 hole.
Over here, clubs are much not very far away (less petrol) and winch
launches
are cheap - typically 3 launches or an hour in the air take about 3
hours
work to earn.

I suspect that moving away from home to work/university, the other
gender,
family responsibilities, hours in the week, and other interests are
more significant.

There's nothing in the above posts that I would disagree with.

However, I would add that the 18-25 group are starting families and
careers. Unlike the job scene when I was in that age group, today's
employers tend to expect 60+ hours a week (Even though they only pay
for 40.) The term "wage slave" rings true.

Today, entry level jobs pay so little that many employees have second
jobs to make ends meet and repay their staggering college tuition debt
- sometimes as much as $250,000. I get the feeling few young people
have much in the way of "free time" or disposable income.

40 years ago only top level managers were "exempt" and even relatively
senior employees got overtime pay. That meant almost everyone got
every weekend off. Few had tuition debt to repay.

The observation that the groups who still have some "free time" and
disposable income are those with few ordinary obligations also rings
true. Fortunately, there are enough of them to meet our growth
goals. We just have to find them and let them know about our sport.
I think it's likely that "cherry picking" other groups that attract
this unencumbered demographic is the way to go.

Bill D

Well, the 18-25 crowd is busy with school.... and school is expensive
and time consuming. After that, they are working, trying to get
"grounded" as an adult, buy a home, get married, this sort of thing.
Then perhaps kids... and only when the child is old enough to not need
constant attention, and they have financially recovered from all of
the diapers, pre-school and daycare fees, etc, is there time for
something other than parenting... thus the 35 crowd.

This is where I sit, I wasn't able to start flying until recently, at
37, despite having an interest in flying since age 16.

Incidentally, I didn't start sailing until about the same time,
despite an interest in that also.

-tom

On Dec 17, 9:44*am, Tom Gardner wrote:
On Dec 17, 4:08*pm, Uncle Fuzzy wrote:



On Dec 17, 7:22*am, Tom Gardner wrote:

On Dec 17, 2:20*pm, wrote:

As you allude- the other easy catch market is the person who now has
their kids launched and wants to go have some fun.
FWIW
UH

There's a slightly younger variant of that, who might therefore be
ensnared slightly earlier: someone
* - with a teenager that is spreading their wings and becoming
* * interested in "the wrong things" (e.g. shopping malls
* - who would like to extend the time that their offspring
* * wants to do something with their father

Worked for me and my daughter, I'm pleased to say!

My $.02
We get a fair number of young people in the under 18 y/o age bracket,
then almost none in the 18 - 25(ish) age group. *I think initial
exposure is a factor, but MONEY is a huge issue. *The very young
people are introduced to soaring (for the most part) by parents or
relatives who also pay for their flying. *By age 18, they're usually
pretty much one their own for flying expenses. It's not until later
(sometimes much later) that they can again afford to get and stay
involved in soaring. *In my case, I always wanted to fly. I just
couldn't afford it until I was in my very late 40's.

Personally I'm not convinced that money is the main reason for the
18-40 hole.
Over here, clubs are much not very far away (less petrol) and winch
launches
are cheap - typically 3 launches or an hour in the air take about 3
hours
work to earn.

I suspect that moving away from home to work/university, the other
gender,
family responsibilities, hours in the week, and other interests are
more significant.

I would also add that "leisure time activities" tend to track the
financial health of the middle class - one that's having a
particularly hard time in this economy. Soaring tends to do well in
countries with a thriving middle class. The wealthy want jets, not
gliders. If they have a Citation, they lust for a 4-engine
Gulfstream. Lower classes just want affordable health care.

In my neighborhood, numerous couples have their adult children living
with them again - sometimes with their wives and young children. The
story is that their offspring graduated, started a career, married,
had children, bought a house only to be laid off and lose their house
to a foreclosure. Some of these young adults really want to fly but
you can see in their eyes they don't think they will ever be able to
afford it.

I don't think the Internet, Facebook etc. has drained off potential
glider pilots - it's is just the only interesting activity they can
afford.

On Dec 17, 11:57*am, bildan wrote:
On Dec 17, 9:44*am, Tom Gardner wrote:





On Dec 17, 4:08*pm, Uncle Fuzzy wrote:

On Dec 17, 7:22*am, Tom Gardner wrote:

On Dec 17, 2:20*pm, wrote:

As you allude- the other easy catch market is the person who now has
their kids launched and wants to go have some fun.
FWIW
UH

There's a slightly younger variant of that, who might therefore be
ensnared slightly earlier: someone
* - with a teenager that is spreading their wings and becoming
* * interested in "the wrong things" (e.g. shopping malls
* - who would like to extend the time that their offspring
* * wants to do something with their father

Worked for me and my daughter, I'm pleased to say!

My $.02
We get a fair number of young people in the under 18 y/o age bracket,
then almost none in the 18 - 25(ish) age group. *I think initial
exposure is a factor, but MONEY is a huge issue. *The very young
people are introduced to soaring (for the most part) by parents or
relatives who also pay for their flying. *By age 18, they're usually
pretty much one their own for flying expenses. It's not until later
(sometimes much later) that they can again afford to get and stay
involved in soaring. *In my case, I always wanted to fly. I just
couldn't afford it until I was in my very late 40's.

Personally I'm not convinced that money is the main reason for the
18-40 hole.
Over here, clubs are much not very far away (less petrol) and winch
launches
are cheap - typically 3 launches or an hour in the air take about 3
hours
work to earn.

I suspect that moving away from home to work/university, the other
gender,
family responsibilities, hours in the week, and other interests are
more significant.

I would also add that "leisure time activities" tend to track the
financial health of the middle class - one that's having a
particularly hard time in this economy. *Soaring tends to do well in
countries with a thriving middle class. *The wealthy want jets, not
gliders. *If they have a Citation, they lust for a 4-engine
Gulfstream. *Lower classes just want affordable health care.

In my neighborhood, numerous couples have their adult children living
with them again - sometimes with their wives and young children. *The
story is that their offspring graduated, started a career, married,
had children, bought a house only to be laid off and lose their house
to a foreclosure. *Some of these young adults really want to fly but
you can see in their eyes they don't think they will ever be able to
afford it.

I don't think the Internet, Facebook etc. has drained off potential
glider pilots - it's is just the only interesting activity they can
afford.

look at all the high end glass for sale on W&W.................is that
a barometer of the financial crisis as well? I do hope that these
sellers have new sailplanes on order, but I wonder who will be buying
those toys up for sale now?

Let's hope there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and that it
isn't the head lights of a freight train boring down.

In the mean time, I could care less about trying to get more people
interested in soaring, I want to protect what I already have and enjoy
what I and my friends already know is the best damn sport in the
world. What I see now are more students, demo rides and commercial
rides vying for an already small support system. The end result, no
one is happy: long lines on the launch queue, priority given to those
who feel one group of pilots, students/CFIG's need to be pushed to the
front of the line at the expense of those who are strapped in and
ready to go XC, demo rides given priority because "it's for the good
of soaring". No thanks................in an FBO scenario this is
great, they want business and long lines mean business. For a club
that wants to be everything to everybody it doesn't work.

Soaring isn't an inherently selfish sport, but when the WX is good and
the clouds fill the sky altruism goes out the window.

Brad