Winston Churchill As Anthrax Bomber

The Germans in both wars were barbaric, to the allies. In WW2, they
were
animals, and it didn't take too much allied propaganda to set the
scene.

You get your History from Hollywood Smollywood. Unfortunately it's
just crap.

Here is where you tell us that KZ was actually just a modest RAD project, hyped
by the Allies. Bernd, you have a lot of good info to share, but standing
beside the Nazis and telling us how humane they were just ain't going to work.
90% of the German military WERE just professional soldiers, airmen, and
sailors, doing their duty to volk und vaterland. Very few of this group were
out violating their Article 98 oath. Unfortunately, the remaining few percent
of the Wehrmacht (a few Heer, some KM, small percent LW, damn near ALL W-SS)
actively participated in genocide, scorched earth, strafing refugees, MG
lifeboats and all the other things that were _not_ invented in Hollywood.

You started sounding like a well read authority on this thread and are slowly
moving toward a defiant "we were the victims" stance. Wrong audience, sir.

Germany's leadership took its people directly into harm's way and if its cities
and population were being immolated, Hitler always had the option of halting
the carnage by surrendering and taking his punishment for sponsoring murder in
his own country and all over the European continent.

v/r
Gordon

Around the time of Coventry British Jamming of the German blind
bombing system was mostly ineffecvive despite claims to the contrary.

Source, please?

Mike, Knickebein (SP) most certainly was jammed - I've interviewed KG airmen
that rode 111s, 88s, and 217s during this period and the jamming was hit or
miss, but definitely it worked on occasion. The 'Wizard War' was active almost
from the first siren of the conflict.

v/r
Gordon

In message , Krztalizer
writes

Around the time of Coventry British Jamming of the German blind
bombing system was mostly ineffecvive despite claims to the contrary.

Source, please?

Mike, Knickebein (SP) most certainly was jammed - I've interviewed KG airmen
that rode 111s, 88s, and 217s during this period and the jamming was hit or
miss, but definitely it worked on occasion.

Yes, I know it was jammed. What I wanted to know was the source of the
claim that it was 'mostly ineffective'.

The 'Wizard War' was active almost
from the first siren of the conflict.

Long before that.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell

Mosquitoes could take down just the walls of prisons.

I believe that happened once, and was a matter of luck.


Emphatically disagree on the "luck" part. That's like saying it was just luck
that sank the Arizona, not months of planning and practice.

The Jerico raid participants specifically targeted the German barracks
(hit/destroyed), the outer wall at two points (hit/destroyed), and put a couple
into the walls of the prison itself, exactly as planned, with the intention of
knocking doors off hinges.

A matter of luck? No sir - skill, daring, and professionalism under fire.

Mosquito crews were rather famous to the Germans for their ability to put bombs
into tight spots - at Aarhus University, students were in one wing of a
building, the Gestapo records office in another. It most certainly was not
luck that one was destroyed, the other undamaged. I could spend the rest of
the day providing such examples - what about the S/L that flew down the street
under the rooftops in Holland, depositing his bombs through the doorway of the
SS headquarters? Whether Jerico happened only once or not, it is an excellent
example of the ability of 105 and 109 Squadron's skill at precise bombing. You
dismiss the accomplishments of these men in a cavalier manner to make your
point and it was entirely unneccessary.

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR

Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to a
reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.

"Krztalizer" wrote in message
...

Mosquitoes could take down just the walls of prisons.

I believe that happened once, and was a matter of luck.


Emphatically disagree on the "luck" part. That's like saying it was just
luck
that sank the Arizona, not months of planning and practice.

The Jerico raid participants specifically targeted the German barracks
(hit/destroyed), the outer wall at two points (hit/destroyed), and put a
couple
into the walls of the prison itself, exactly as planned, with the
intention of
knocking doors off hinges.

A matter of luck? No sir - skill, daring, and professionalism under fire.


Absolutely, German light flak was deadly and at those altitudes
your chances of survival if badly hit were low. The loss rates on this sort
of mission
could be very high. Of the 18 aircraft used in Jericho 2 were shot
down and 3 more badly damaged.

In the raid on the Gestapo HQ in Copenhagen 3 out of 10 aircraft were
shot down, another was so badly damaged it crashed on landing
and was written off and another limped back on one engine.

Keith

90% of the German military WERE just professional soldiers, airmen, and
sailors, doing their duty to volk und vaterland.

I think you give too much credit to the German military, and indeed to
the human race. When you are in a society that condones extermination
camps, reprisal murders, torture of prisoners, and the like, it takes
a great act of courage to do otherwise. Perhaps 90 percent of the
German military (and any other military) would have acted correctly
had they been given a different example, but they weren't, and they
didn't.

I think you should reverse your percentages. Or else you should put an
asterisk after "duty" and specify that this included what a sane
society would deem crimes.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

I'd be interested in any cites you can produce
for the claim that the Irish (presumably the
government?) put on extra lights to help German
bombers. It would have been a breach of neutrality
which would surprise me.

It would also have been an astonishing
waste of money, in a very lean
time, which would surprise me even more.

The Germans bombed Dublin by mistake once by a lone plane which dropped
bombs in a park or somewhere harmless. DeValera ordered all lights to
always remain on and added more. This clearly was not to protect Dublin at
all, it was a clear effective beacon to guide planes to Liverpool. The
people of Liverpool never forgave the Irish for what they did.

I'm sure the British were terribly annoyed that Ireland remained
neutral during WWII.

Not really.

Still, they got hundreds of thousands of Irish
workers and soldiers,

All paid for. The soldiers were volunteers. The Irish have a love hate
relationship with the British. Many ex IRA joined the British army, with
ready made useful gun skills, and no questions asked.

not to mention Irish greengoods and beef, and
any British or American airmen who went down
over the Republic were quietly returned across
the border to northern Ireland, so it really
worked out quite well in the end.

Returned? One escaped and the British sent him back, to enforce the neutral
relationship. On VE Day the students at Dublin university burnt the Irish
tricolour in disgust at Ireland standing by and doing nothing. Many Irish
were embarrassed at their stance in WW2.



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"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

I'd be interested in any cites you can produce for the claim that the
Irish (presumably the government?) put on extra lights to help German
bombers. It would have been a breach of neutrality which would surprise
me.

It would also have been an astonishing waste of money, in a very lean
time, which would surprise me even more.

I'm sure the British were terribly annoyed that Ireland remained
neutral during WWII. Still, they got hundreds of thousands of Irish
workers and soldiers, not to mention Irish greengoods and beef, and
any British or American airmen who went down over the Republic were
quietly returned across the border to northern Ireland, so it really
worked out quite well in the end.

Irish men and women joined the British Armed Forces in the Second World War
with nearly 2,000 killed. The IRA is known to have helped the Germans by
providing intelligence about Belfast a major shipbuilding city (they built
the Titanic), in the north, still in the UK. The city was almost destroyed
in four Luftwaffe bombing raids in 1941.

There were claims that people living in the Republic close to the border
with Ulster, turned on their house lights at night to guide the German
bombers into Belfast.

Seven Irishmen from the Republic won VCs. During WW2. Irish newspapers were
censored, and not allowed to refer to people from the Republic fighting for
the British. The Irish referred to WW2 as "the emergency".

The British-hating premier de Valera delivered a clear message in 1945. He
signed a book of condolence at the German embassy in Dublin, to mark the
death of Adolf Hitler.



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"Spiv" wrote in message
...



The Germans bombed Dublin by mistake once by a lone plane which dropped
bombs in a park or somewhere harmless. DeValera ordered all lights to
always remain on and added more. This clearly was not to protect Dublin
at
all, it was a clear effective beacon to guide planes to Liverpool. The
people of Liverpool never forgave the Irish for what they did.


Now last time I checked Dublin was a LONG way from Liverpool
so pray tell how having its lights could aid the Luftwaffe target that city
?

Perhaps the Americans were helping by not blacking out NYC in 1940 ?

How about the lights in Stockholm - were they a beacon pointing to
Newcastle do you think ?

Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"Spiv" wrote in message
...



The Germans bombed Dublin by mistake once by a lone plane which dropped
bombs in a park or somewhere harmless. DeValera ordered all lights to
always remain on and added more. This clearly was not to protect Dublin
at
all, it was a clear effective beacon to guide planes to Liverpool. The
people of Liverpool never forgave the Irish for what they did.


Now last time I checked Dublin was a LONG way from Liverpool
so pray tell how having its lights could aid the Luftwaffe target that
city
?

It is due west of Liverpool. See Dublin to the west then steer due east and
you hit it.

Perhaps the Americans were
helping by not blacking out NYC in 1940 ?

You have a sense of humour I see.


How about the lights in Stockholm - were they a beacon pointing to
Newcastle do you think ?

Oh you are fun.


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