121.5 ELTs banned

On Jun 22, 3:53*pm, "Tim Mara" wrote:
Typical government bureaucracy I don't believe the FCC has thought this
through very thoroughly...in "banning" the use of 121.5 they have also
rendered almost all 406 Mhz ELT's currently on the market as "illegal"
should this pass...almost every new 406MhZ ELT is Dual band, or triple band
and transmits on 121.5/243.0 and 406.0 MHz).
Unless they change the wording this issue is already dead in the water.
tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website atwww.wingsandwheels.com

wrote in message

...
On Jun 22, 11:43 am, Darryl Ramm wrote:



On Jun 22, 7:32 am, jb92563 wrote:

On Jun 21, 4:01 pm, brian whatcott wrote:

Since satellite cover has been withdrawn for 121.5
(High false alert rate, poor localization)
406.0 and 406.1 ELTs will be needed, following a recent FCC
determination.

Brian W

Since the bereaucrats love so many rules, why not make another and let
Gliders and ballons use PLB's like SPOT since in our sport we often
have support crews that will monitor our progress in any case, making
SPOT a very convenient tool for us and our crews.

Ray.

First a SPOT is *not* a PLB. A PLB is a specific device regulated by
the FCC that transmits on 406 MHz to COAPAS-SARSAT (and also a 121.5
homing becon). It is essentially a lower power, smaller, manually
activated 406 MHz ELT.

SPOT is a private service run by Globalstar. The (multi-)government
service is COSPAS-SARSAT and that provides pretty impressive emergency
notification service for marine (EPIRB), Aviation (ELT) and private
(PLB) use. It makes no sense for he government to promote SPOT over
SARSAT-COSPAS.

There is no federal requirement for a glider to carry an ELT. There is
an apparently well intended but badly outdated SSA contest rule that
allows a CD to require gliders to carry an ELT. The issue I have with
that is a 406 MHz PLB is likely a much better SAR alerting device than
an old 121.5 MHz ELT even if you could properly mount one in the
glider. ELTs in light aircraft have an abysmal activation failure
record, and I suspect that will be much worse in gliders with many of
them improperly mounted and the lower impact energy of many glider
crashes. SPOT tracking is great, a 10 minute position report gives you
a simple area of uncertainty roughly about the same as an old SARSAT
121.5 MHz Doppler fix, but because you can usually use the glider path
to predict the flight direction it's actually better than that. At
least it's a good start for a search operation. If the pilot can
activate "911" on their SPOT and it gets a view of the Globalstar
satellites and a GPS fix then their final position is know as well. I
prefer the redundancy of havign both SPOT and a PLB and the technical
advantages of a PLB for that ultimate distress situation, but if I am
in distress can I'll be activating 911 on my SPOT and activating my
PLB. At a minimum the old SSA contest rule for ELTs could be modified
to allow a CD if they choose to require SPOT and/or "406 MHZ PLB or
ELT carriage".

Darryl

SSA competition rules provide the option for contest organizers to
require these types of devices. Currently, if a glider is impact ELT
equipped, it will satisfy this requirement. Organizers may also permit
SPOT as an alternative to impact activated ELT's , but currently can't
require SPOT instead of impact actiaved ELT's. The rules continue to
evolve as capabilities change.
The Contest Committee is on record as strongly suggesting use of some
kind of safety device by all participants.
I currently have a 121.5 impact activated ELT, 406 PL, and SPOT.
Something should work.
UH
SSA Competition Rules Committee Chair

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We'll have to see the final 47 CFR part 87 wording is but the FCC is
well aware of ELT technology. People are reading too much into casual
language used by the FCC in a notice of rule changes. They are
essentially doing the same thing to 121.5 Mhz ELTs as they did to
121.5MHz marine EPIRBS. As much as it is easy to beleive at times that
the Feds are incomepetent, the FCC clearly understand that a 406 MHz
ELTs, PLBs and EPIRBs also transmit on 121.5 Mhz.

Darryl

Peter Hermann wrote:
Scott wrote:
to UHF, it will solve that problem. Until then, you'll either have to

interesting solution.
remains the question whether UHF has better
physical characteristics of range and quality.
...and what about affordability.

Ouch! That's the hot button: $600 but mostly $1200 on up....

Brian W

jb92563 wrote:
On Jun 21, 4:01 pm, brian whatcott wrote:
Since satellite cover has been withdrawn for 121.5
(High false alert rate, poor localization)
406.0 and 406.1 ELTs will be needed, following a recent FCC determination.

Brian W

Since the bereaucrats love so many rules, why not make another and let
Gliders and ballons use PLB's like SPOT since in our sport we often
have support crews that will monitor our progress in any case, making
SPOT a very convenient tool for us and our crews.

Ray.

Apparently glider pilots are not obliged to carry ELTs.
A cell phone, spot, EPIRB, ADS-B, FLARM are some other options
I have heard about...

Brian W

Scott wrote:
5Z wrote:
On Jun 22, 12:48 am, Peter Hermann wrote:
How to test proper functioning of 406 MHz with 118 - 136 MHz radios?

The 406 ELT's still transmit on 121.5 as well. So the FCC wants to
get rid of 121.5 ONLY units.

-Tom

Phew! I dodged a bullet! My ELT transmits on 121.5 and 243, so I'm
good



Yours and all the other old 121.5 ELTs, I fancy.... :-)

Brian W

they are not, but many do


"brian whatcott" wrote in message
...
jb92563 wrote:
On Jun 21, 4:01 pm, brian whatcott wrote:
Since satellite cover has been withdrawn for 121.5
(High false alert rate, poor localization)
406.0 and 406.1 ELTs will be needed, following a recent FCC
determination.

Brian W

Since the bereaucrats love so many rules, why not make another and let
Gliders and ballons use PLB's like SPOT since in our sport we often
have support crews that will monitor our progress in any case, making
SPOT a very convenient tool for us and our crews.

Ray.

Apparently glider pilots are not obliged to carry ELTs.
A cell phone, spot, EPIRB, ADS-B, FLARM are some other options
I have heard about...

Brian W

brian whatcott wrote:

The rationale seems to go like this: the 406 spec is for 4 watts min on
the UHF (Oh, alright = 17dBm) pulsed for nearly 1/2 second per 50 secs
or so for the following 48 to 50 hours...

Brian W

Huh? +17 dBm is only 50 milliwatts???

Scott wrote:
brian whatcott wrote:

The rationale seems to go like this: the 406 spec is for 4 watts min
on the UHF (Oh, alright = 17dBm) pulsed for nearly 1/2 second per 50
secs or so for the following 48 to 50 hours...
Brian W

Huh? +17 dBm is only 50 milliwatts???

Nice catch - 17dBm is apparently the 121.5 required component.
Try 35dBm for the 406 component.

Brian W