Avro C102 Jetliner

This was the second jet airliiner to fly, 13 days after the
Comet's first short trial. The prototype flew for several years
without serious incident before being scrapped.

There's a copy of a 1950 ASME lecture about the design at

http://www.avroarrow.org/Jetliner/Jetliner.html

it's well worth a look

Peter Skelton

In article ,
Peter Skelton wrote:
This was the second jet airliiner to fly, 13 days after the
Comet's first short trial. The prototype flew for several years
without serious incident before being scrapped.

There's a copy of a 1950 ASME lecture about the design at

http://www.avroarrow.org/Jetliner/Jetliner.html

There's also an (excellent) article in this month's Aeroplane
Monthly magazine (UK). Recommended.

--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)

The problem with the jetliner was that while lots of airlines WANTED it,
the bloody government basically
shutdown the programme because they didn't want Avro to fall behind on
development and delivery work for
the canucks.

Peter Skelton wrote:

This was the second jet airliiner to fly, 13 days after the
Comet's first short trial. The prototype flew for several years
without serious incident before being scrapped.

There's a copy of a 1950 ASME lecture about the design at

http://www.avroarrow.org/Jetliner/Jetliner.html

it's well worth a look

Peter Skelton

Yes, it had "flight restrictions" for the entire seven years - they just
got weirder as time went on.


Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Peter Skelton" wrote in message
...


It had ordinary ones for a plane in its stage of development. In
the last 4 years they were weird.



In other words, it had flight restrictions for it's entire seven years of
existence.

"Steven _Pee Brain_ McNicoll" wrote:
"Brett Moron" wrote in message
...
"Steven _Pee Brain_ McNicoll" wrote:

So what have I written that you're disputing? Did the Jetliner have
no
flight restrictions between 1949 and 1952?


were they "odd"


Were they ever!

In the last four years they were. For the first 2 years whatever
restrictions existed on the airframe didn't prevent it from creating
"records" on nearly every flight.

So, it appears my questions stumped you. I suggest you work on your
capitalization and punctuation, as well as your arithmetic.

And I suggest you actually look up the word odd.

In article . net,
"Steven P. McNicoll" writes:

"Peter Stickney" wrote in message
...

Uhm - the Jetliner ended up getting chopped as well. After about 4
years of some of the oddest restrictions on flying it.


The Jetliner made it's last flight on November 23, 1956, more than seven
years after it's first.

Yep. amd for the last four of those years, it could, by order of the
Canadian Government, only be flown in support of integrating the
Hughes radar fire control system into the CF-100. Now, they'd already
canned the idea of producing it, and, if nothing else, they could have
used it to stand in for the RCAF's Comet Is, when they were grounded
in '54, until they were rebuilt. Now, the Jetliner wasn't really
needed for test work - Hughes and the USAF used B-25s, and, in fact,
the RCAF picked up some of the Hughes-modified TB-25s to use as system
trainers. So it does raise a few eyebrows. It appears that flailing
around to cover controversial decisions wasn't limited to the
Diefenbaker government. Howard Hughes had flown the Jetliner, and was
interested in buying it as his personal Go-Kart, replacing his B-23.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

Brett wrote:

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:
"Peter Stickney" wrote in message
...

Uhm - the Jetliner ended up getting chopped as well. After about 4
years of some of the oddest restrictions on flying it.


The Jetliner made it's last flight on November 23, 1956, more than seven
years after it's first.

I believe if you look at page 62 of Aeroplane Monthly for February 2004:
"The Jetliner returned to Malton in September 1952. Authorised to be flown
only as an observation and photographic platform for the CF-100 flight
tests, it flew for the last time on November 23, 1956."
Just over four years "of some of the oddest restrictions on flying it".

But its first flight was in 1949 is the point.

In article , says...

Yep. amd for the last four of those years, it could, by order of the
Canadian Government,..... &c

One way or the other, we shot ourselves in the foot; not once, but twice....
Bloody hell.... mere conspiracy theories do not come near to explaining total
stupidity..... No one would believe it.....

Cheers,
dba

"Kristan Roberge" wrote:
Brett wrote:

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:
"Peter Stickney" wrote in message
...

Uhm - the Jetliner ended up getting chopped as well. After about 4
years of some of the oddest restrictions on flying it.


The Jetliner made it's last flight on November 23, 1956, more than
seven
years after it's first.

I believe if you look at page 62 of Aeroplane Monthly for February 2004:
"The Jetliner returned to Malton in September 1952. Authorised to be
flown
only as an observation and photographic platform for the CF-100 flight
tests, it flew for the last time on November 23, 1956."
Just over four years "of some of the oddest restrictions on flying it".

But its first flight was in 1949 is the point.

No the point in the original post was that 4 years of the airframes life
after program cancellation were essentially wasted. The XB-51 first flight
was in October 1949, it lost out in the Air Force competition that resulted
in a large Canberra (B-57) buy in March 1951 and the XB-51 program was
cancelled in November 1951. However, the first XB-51 airframe was utilized
in a large number of other test programs, generating "useful" data (and a
movie career, "Toward the Unknown", 1956), until it finally crashed in 1956.
The XB-51 program was terminated but the original investment in building it
wasn't wasted.

Looking at my picture of the airliner I can see a standard piston
engine design airframe with four small Derwent centrifugal engines. I
would posit that the thick airfoils would limit its speed to say .75
max (if that) and probably about 300 IAS just like the Convair 240 it
resembles. The four low-pressure centrifugals guzzle fuel hungrily.
With the Comet all ready to go the bird was a non-starter despite the
PR advantage of offering 'jet service'. The Canadian Gov did their
airlines a service - or they would have been in a fix just like
Eastern was when Eddie Rickenbacker eschewed true jets for the
turboprop Electra and very shortly AA and National ate his lunch.
Walt BJ