Shouldn't the purchase of the F/A-22s wait until they have been tested?

http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/wood021204.html
The Air Force has spent $32 billion on its new F-22 supersonic stealth
fighter. Twenty aircraft have come off the production line and
hundreds more are planned.
....
But rigorous, independent field testing -- to find out if the F-22
actually works -- hasn't yet begun.

So why not pause production for a few years until the testing is
complete?

-HJC

"Henry J. Cobb" wrote in message
m...
http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/wood021204.html
The Air Force has spent $32 billion on its new F-22 supersonic stealth
fighter. Twenty aircraft have come off the production line and
hundreds more are planned.
...
But rigorous, independent field testing -- to find out if the F-22
actually works -- hasn't yet begun.

So why not pause production for a few years until the testing is
complete?

Georgia pork.

In article ,
(Henry J. Cobb) wrote:

So why not pause production for a few years until the testing is
complete?

Define "complete." For a lot of folks, testing would never *be*
"complete." We've had planes in the inventory for *years* before some
problems showed up. That's the nature of complex systems. Testing them
to a certain point is quite sufficient.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

On 22 Feb 2004 14:00:17 -0800,
Henry J. Cobb wrote:
http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/wood021204.html
The Air Force has spent $32 billion on its new F-22 supersonic stealth
fighter. Twenty aircraft have come off the production line and
hundreds more are planned.
...
But rigorous, independent field testing -- to find out if the F-22
actually works -- hasn't yet begun.


To conduct rigorous, independent field testing you need planes to test
and it is a unfortunate part of the arms business that it costs money
to design, build, test and field the things.

Imagine the same conversation has occurred over and over going back to the
invention of the sharp stick.

"Henry J. Cobb" wrote in message
m...
http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/wood021204.html
The Air Force has spent $32 billion on its new F-22 supersonic stealth
fighter. Twenty aircraft have come off the production line and
hundreds more are planned.
...
But rigorous, independent field testing -- to find out if the F-22
actually works -- hasn't yet begun.

So why not pause production for a few years until the testing is
complete?

Henry, your ceaseless efforts to out-think the DoD (and I recently noted
where you are now looking to take on the Canadian defense
establishment--hopefully then you are about done with our own forces?) are
becoming increasingly ridiculous. Are you really so utterly clueless as to
think that you can just put that F-22 production on "hold" for "a few
years", after the production line is already up and running? And what other
weapons system has EVER undergone "rigorous, independent field testing" for
"a few years" while the assembly line sits idle?

Brooks

Note: For those not knowledgable of Henry's history, he has driven quite a
few of the more sensible regulars over in SMN up the wall with his
continuous, emphatic, and frequently baseless critiques of the USN's LCS,
DDX, etc., programs, seemingly convinced that he alone (none of those
pedantic professional naval officers having a clue, of course) has a clear
view of what the Navy *really* needs. God forbid he now is apparently going
to stretch his grasp towards the USAF, for which he undoubtedly will have a
plethora of criticisms in store...


-HJC

Kevin Brooks wrote:

"Henry J. Cobb" wrote in message
m...
http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/wood021204.html
The Air Force has spent $32 billion on its new F-22 supersonic stealth
fighter. Twenty aircraft have come off the production line and
hundreds more are planned.
...
But rigorous, independent field testing -- to find out if the F-22
actually works -- hasn't yet begun.

So why not pause production for a few years until the testing is
complete?

Henry, your ceaseless efforts to out-think the DoD (and I recently noted
where you are now looking to take on the Canadian defense
establishment--hopefully then you are about done with our own forces?) are
becoming increasingly ridiculous. Are you really so utterly clueless as to
think that you can just put that F-22 production on "hold" for "a few
years", after the production line is already up and running? And what other
weapons system has EVER undergone "rigorous, independent field testing" for
"a few years" while the assembly line sits idle?

Brooks

Note: For those not knowledgable of Henry's history, he has driven quite a
few of the more sensible regulars over in SMN up the wall with his
continuous, emphatic, and frequently baseless critiques of the USN's LCS,
DDX, etc., programs, seemingly convinced that he alone (none of those
pedantic professional naval officers having a clue, of course) has a clear
view of what the Navy *really* needs. God forbid he now is apparently going
to stretch his grasp towards the USAF, for which he undoubtedly will have a
plethora of criticisms in store...

The simplest answer is to just ignore/killfile him for the terminally clueless
sort he is, because it's clear that he'll continue this ad nauseum as long as
anyone's willing to reply to his nonsense. Since he's more of a minor
irritation than a plague, for the moment I'm just ignoring him.

Guy

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..
Kevin Brooks wrote:

"Henry J. Cobb" wrote in message
m...
http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/wood021204.html
The Air Force has spent $32 billion on its new F-22 supersonic stealth
fighter. Twenty aircraft have come off the production line and
hundreds more are planned.
...
But rigorous, independent field testing -- to find out if the F-22
actually works -- hasn't yet begun.

So why not pause production for a few years until the testing is
complete?

Henry, your ceaseless efforts to out-think the DoD (and I recently noted
where you are now looking to take on the Canadian defense
establishment--hopefully then you are about done with our own forces?)
are
becoming increasingly ridiculous. Are you really so utterly clueless as
to
think that you can just put that F-22 production on "hold" for "a few
years", after the production line is already up and running? And what
other
weapons system has EVER undergone "rigorous, independent field testing"
for
"a few years" while the assembly line sits idle?

Brooks

Note: For those not knowledgable of Henry's history, he has driven quite
a
few of the more sensible regulars over in SMN up the wall with his
continuous, emphatic, and frequently baseless critiques of the USN's
LCS,
DDX, etc., programs, seemingly convinced that he alone (none of those
pedantic professional naval officers having a clue, of course) has a
clear
view of what the Navy *really* needs. God forbid he now is apparently
going
to stretch his grasp towards the USAF, for which he undoubtedly will
have a
plethora of criticisms in store...

The simplest answer is to just ignore/killfile him for the terminally
clueless
sort he is, because it's clear that he'll continue this ad nauseum as long
as
anyone's willing to reply to his nonsense. Since he's more of a minor
irritation than a plague, for the moment I'm just ignoring him.

Boy, you got the "ad nauseum" part right! He has on occasion touched upon
some kernal of truth in his posts, but he just keeps going, and going, and
going... sort of the "Energizer Bunny" of "I know better than the folks who
know better" types. You are probably right as to the ignoring approach
(which is why I have refrained from jumping into his "LCS is stupid" threads
in SMN), but since his past exploits have been concentrated in the SMN
group, I thought it might be useful for the regulars over here to know his
kinks.

Brooks


Guy

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 00:13:36 GMT, walt moffett
wrote:

On 22 Feb 2004 14:00:17 -0800,
Henry J. Cobb wrote:
http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/wood021204.html
The Air Force has spent $32 billion on its new F-22 supersonic stealth
fighter. Twenty aircraft have come off the production line and
hundreds more are planned.
...
But rigorous, independent field testing -- to find out if the F-22
actually works -- hasn't yet begun.


To conduct rigorous, independent field testing you need planes to test
and it is a unfortunate part of the arms business that it costs money
to design, build, test and field the things.

Imagine the same conversation has occurred over and over going back to the
invention of the sharp stick.

Sharp sticks don't cost $150M, I agree that some testing can wait
till after production starts, but you now have a situation where
you have 20 F-22 all of which are at different builds...

Its going to be an absolute nightmare to keep the fleet at any one
build standard.

Cheers

That is why they each and every aircraft has a fin number.
"John Cook" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 00:13:36 GMT, walt moffett
wrote:

On 22 Feb 2004 14:00:17 -0800,
Henry J. Cobb wrote:
http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/wood021204.html
The Air Force has spent $32 billion on its new F-22 supersonic stealth
fighter. Twenty aircraft have come off the production line and
hundreds more are planned.
...
But rigorous, independent field testing -- to find out if the F-22
actually works -- hasn't yet begun.


To conduct rigorous, independent field testing you need planes to test
and it is a unfortunate part of the arms business that it costs money
to design, build, test and field the things.

Imagine the same conversation has occurred over and over going back to
the
invention of the sharp stick.

Sharp sticks don't cost $150M, I agree that some testing can wait
till after production starts, but you now have a situation where
you have 20 F-22 all of which are at different builds...

Its going to be an absolute nightmare to keep the fleet at any one
build standard.

Cheers

"John Cook" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 00:13:36 GMT, walt moffett
wrote:

SNIP

SNIPS

Sharp sticks don't cost $150M, I agree that some testing can wait
till after production starts, but you now have a situation where
you have 20 F-22 all of which are at different builds...

Its going to be an absolute nightmare to keep the fleet at any one
build standard.

Cheers

Late last year, Lockheed installed a new guy in charge at its GA plant. One
of his first actions was to place a sort of "freeze" on the F/A-22, meaning
no more engineering tweaks, and proceeding with "serial" if slow-rate
production, from that point forward.