Liability Insurance for a Winch Operation?

We are planning to add a winch operation at our airport (H71)
in the eastern Oklahoma area. If you are operating a winch,
what are you doing for liability insurance? How much are you
paying?

Thanks for your time!

Randy Teel
Tulsa, OK

On Mar 6, 9:51*am, Randy Teel wrote:
We are planning to add a winch operation at our airport (H71)
in the eastern Oklahoma area. If you are operating a winch,
what are you doing for liability insurance? How much are you
paying?

Thanks for your time!

Randy Teel
Tulsa, OK

Have you contacted Costello Insurance through the SSA Group Policy?
Both Club and Commercial insurance should be available.

On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 12:51:55 PM UTC-5, Randy wrote:
We are planning to add a winch operation at our airport (H71)
in the eastern Oklahoma area. If you are operating a winch,
what are you doing for liability insurance? How much are you
paying?

Thanks for your time!

Randy Teel
Tulsa, OK

I would be interested to learn what it is the winch insurance covers. Does anyone have that definition?


On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 12:51:55 PM UTC-5, Randy wrote:
We are planning to add a winch operation at our airport (H71)
in the eastern Oklahoma area. If you are operating a winch,
what are you doing for liability insurance? How much are you
paying?

Thanks for your time!

Randy Teel
Tulsa, OK

Yes, I have contacted Costello Insurance, but I was checking to see
what other options that I might have. I want to find out what other
clubs are doing?

On Mar 6, 3:42*pm, GM wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 12:51:55 PM UTC-5, Randy wrote:
We are planning to add a winch operation at our airport (H71)
in the eastern Oklahoma area. If you are operating a winch,
what are you doing for liability insurance? How much are you
paying?

Thanks for your time!

Randy Teel
Tulsa, OK

I would be interested to learn what it is the winch insurance covers. Does anyone have that definition?


I would be interested in "hull coverage", there is an investment to be
protected from theft or fire.
I would be interested in liability to the glider, a winch failure at a
critical time could result in loss of a glider.
I would be interested in liability to a person, caught with the rope,
hit by a glider during launch, operator hurt if a broken line
penetrates the crew area.

T

On Mar 6, 7:43*pm, T wrote:

Comments interspersed below...
I would be interested to learn what it is the winch insurance covers. Does anyone have that definition?

Contact an insurer like Costello for a sample policy. These things
change rapidly.

I would be interested in "hull coverage", there is an investment to be
protected from theft or fire.

Winches are vehicles covered by collision insurance. They can also be
covered by premises insurance. The coverage amount is whatever you
want to buy.

I would be interested in liability to the glider, a winch failure at a
critical time could result in loss of a glider.

It may seem outrageous to the uninformed but there is nothing a winch
can do to put a skilled pilot or his glider at risk. Winches don't
break gliders - pilots do.

I would be interested in liability to a person, caught with the rope,
hit by a glider during launch, operator hurt if a broken line
penetrates the crew area.

This question suggests the need for winch training. These things
should never happen at a well-run winch operation. However, if they
did, they would be covered by the winch liability policy. Again the
coverage is whatever you want to buy.

As an example of how safe winch operations can be, look at the German
accident statistics. The last numbers I have say they did 1.7 million
launches for 3 fatalities in 17 total accidents. Compare that to US
aero tow accidents with far fewer launches. I have no doubt, given
the same level of skill, winch launch is at least a couple of orders
of magnitude safer than aero tow.

On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:43:03 PM UTC-5, T wrote:
On Mar 6, 3:42*pm, GM wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 12:51:55 PM UTC-5, Randy wrote:
We are planning to add a winch operation at our airport (H71)
in the eastern Oklahoma area. If you are operating a winch,
what are you doing for liability insurance? How much are you
paying?

Thanks for your time!

Randy Teel
Tulsa, OK

I would be interested to learn what it is the winch insurance covers. Does anyone have that definition?


I would be interested in "hull coverage", there is an investment to be
protected from theft or fire.
I would be interested in liability to the glider, a winch failure at a
critical time could result in loss of a glider.
I would be interested in liability to a person, caught with the rope,
hit by a glider during launch, operator hurt if a broken line
penetrates the crew area.

T

I would be interested in "hull coverage", there is an investment to be
protected from theft or fire.
Agree - a winch is an investment and asset for a club.

I would be interested in liability to the glider, a winch failure at a
critical time could result in loss of a glider.
So - is there an insurance covering the glider when the tow-plane's engine fails at 200ft over the airport fence? And when this happens, do you follow the tow-plane to the crash site? No, you release and switch to plan 'B'. So why would it be any different with a winch launch? If the winch fails, you land - depending on when it happens - straight ahead, downwind or after executing an abreviated pattern.

I would be interested in liability to a person, caught with the rope,
hit by a glider during launch, operator hurt if a broken line penetrates the crew area.
What - you plan on launching right across Grand Central Station? No person is permitted in front of the tow-plane or glider during the launch. The same applies for winch launch operations. Using Spectra and the right tackle will make broken lines a thing of the past.

I am still not sure what the winch insurance offered through the SSA actually covers.





On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:43:03 PM UTC-5, T wrote:
On Mar 6, 3:42*pm, GM wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 12:51:55 PM UTC-5, Randy wrote:
We are planning to add a winch operation at our airport (H71)
in the eastern Oklahoma area. If you are operating a winch,
what are you doing for liability insurance? How much are you
paying?

Thanks for your time!

Randy Teel
Tulsa, OK

I would be interested to learn what it is the winch insurance covers. Does anyone have that definition?


I would be interested in "hull coverage", there is an investment to be
protected from theft or fire.
I would be interested in liability to the glider, a winch failure at a
critical time could result in loss of a glider.
I would be interested in liability to a person, caught with the rope,
hit by a glider during launch, operator hurt if a broken line
penetrates the crew area.

T

On Mar 6, 7:58*pm, Bill D wrote:
On Mar 6, 7:43*pm, T wrote:

Comments interspersed below...

I would be interested to learn what it is the winch insurance covers. Does anyone have that definition?

Contact an insurer like Costello for a sample policy. *These things
change rapidly.



I would be interested in "hull coverage", there is an investment to be
protected from theft or fire.

Winches are vehicles covered by collision insurance. *They can also be
covered by premises insurance. *The coverage amount is whatever you
want to buy.

I would be interested in liability to the glider, a winch failure at a
critical time could result in loss of a glider.

It may seem outrageous to the uninformed but there is nothing a winch
can do to put a skilled pilot or his glider at risk. *Winches don't
break gliders - pilots do.

I would be interested in liability to a person, caught with the rope,
hit by a glider during launch, operator hurt if a broken line
penetrates the crew area.

This question suggests the need for winch training. *These things
should never happen at a well-run winch operation. *However, if they
did, they would be covered by the winch liability policy. *Again the
coverage is whatever you want to buy.

As an example of how safe winch operations can be, look at the German
accident statistics. *The last numbers I have say they did 1.7 million
launches for 3 fatalities in 17 total accidents. *Compare that to US
aero tow accidents with far fewer launches. *I have no doubt, given
the same level of skill, winch launch is at least a couple of orders
of magnitude safer than aero tow.

I agree with everything you say.
Assets need to be protected, property insurance, premises insurances,
operations insurance.
And in event the pilot screws up and wreaks his glider and perhaps
injures himself, the family or estate will be after any pocket they
can find.
And yes, a well run operation should not have personal injuries to
anyone, but we all know accidents happen.
Remember the "spectator" injury during a launch at the national
contest in Tonopah years ago.

T

On Mar 6, 8:12*pm, GM wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:43:03 PM UTC-5, T wrote:
On Mar 6, 3:42*pm, GM wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 12:51:55 PM UTC-5, Randy wrote:
We are planning to add a winch operation at our airport (H71)
in the eastern Oklahoma area. If you are operating a winch,
what are you doing for liability insurance? How much are you
paying?

Thanks for your time!

Randy Teel
Tulsa, OK

I would be interested to learn what it is the winch insurance covers. Does anyone have that definition?

I would be interested in "hull coverage", there is an investment to be
protected from theft or fire.
I would be interested in liability to the glider, a winch failure at a
critical time could result in loss of a glider.
I would be interested in liability to a person, caught with the rope,
hit by a glider during launch, operator hurt if a broken line
penetrates the crew area.

T
I would be interested in "hull coverage", there is an investment to be

protected from theft or fire.
Agree - a winch is an investment and asset for a club.

I would be interested in liability to the glider, a winch failure at a

critical time could result in loss of a glider.
So - is there an insurance covering the glider when the tow-plane's engine fails at 200ft over the airport fence? And when this happens, do you follow the tow-plane to the crash site? No, you release and switch to plan 'B'. So why would it be any different with a winch launch? If the winch fails, you land - depending on when it happens - straight ahead, downwind or after executing an abreviated pattern.

I would be interested in liability to a person, caught with the rope,

hit by a glider during launch, operator hurt if a broken line penetrates the crew area.
What - you plan on launching right across Grand Central Station? No person is permitted in front of the tow-plane or glider during the launch. The same applies for winch launch operations. Using Spectra and the right tackle will make broken lines a thing of the past.

I am still not sure what the winch insurance offered through the SSA actually covers.







On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:43:03 PM UTC-5, T wrote:
On Mar 6, 3:42*pm, GM wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 12:51:55 PM UTC-5, Randy wrote:
We are planning to add a winch operation at our airport (H71)
in the eastern Oklahoma area. If you are operating a winch,
what are you doing for liability insurance? How much are you
paying?

Thanks for your time!

Randy Teel
Tulsa, OK

I would be interested to learn what it is the winch insurance covers. Does anyone have that definition?

I would be interested in "hull coverage", there is an investment to be
protected from theft or fire.
I would be interested in liability to the glider, a winch failure at a
critical time could result in loss of a glider.
I would be interested in liability to a person, caught with the rope,
hit by a glider during launch, operator hurt if a broken line
penetrates the crew area.

T

If the tow plane engine fails at 100 ft and the glider ends up in the
trees, everyone blames everyone else and the engine failure on tow
becomes a causal factor. People go for each others pockets. Granted if
the glider and tow have the same underwriter, they are only paying
each other.

Accidents happen, people move when you least expect and move to where
they should not be. Ropes, wire break and whip under stress.

T

On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 12:51:55 PM UTC-5, Randy wrote:
We are planning to add a winch operation at our airport (H71)
in the eastern Oklahoma area. If you are operating a winch,
what are you doing for liability insurance? How much are you
paying?

Thanks for your time!

Randy Teel
Tulsa, OK



On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 12:51:55 PM UTC-5, Randy wrote:
We are planning to add a winch operation at our airport (H71)
in the eastern Oklahoma area. If you are operating a winch,
what are you doing for liability insurance? How much are you
paying?

Thanks for your time!

Randy Teel
Tulsa, OK



On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 12:51:55 PM UTC-5, Randy wrote:
We are planning to add a winch operation at our airport (H71)
in the eastern Oklahoma area. If you are operating a winch,
what are you doing for liability insurance? How much are you
paying?

Thanks for your time!

Randy Teel
Tulsa, OK



On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 12:51:55 PM UTC-5, Randy wrote:
We are planning to add a winch operation at our airport (H71)
in the eastern Oklahoma area. If you are operating a winch,
what are you doing for liability insurance? How much are you
paying?

Thanks for your time!

Randy Teel
Tulsa, OK



On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 12:51:55 PM UTC-5, Randy wrote:
We are planning to add a winch operation at our airport (H71)
in the eastern Oklahoma area. If you are operating a winch,
what are you doing for liability insurance? How much are you
paying?

Thanks for your time!

Randy Teel
Tulsa, OK

Ropes, wire break and whip under stress.
No, they don't, if you use Spectra. Steel cables did that but it should not be used anymore. Costello made that point clear: winches with steel cable or solid wire will be uninsurable. Ask any operation that switched from steel to Spectra or similar - they will tell you what difference it made. We have not had a single line failiure since we switched.
I highly recommend that before you start operating a winch at your club to get in touch with other operations and get advise on the general procedures..
Keep it safe,
Uli