Contest Insurance Grumblings

I have not had any issues with Costello and have been treated very well.
We use them for all of our club's aircraft. For my personal gliders, I am
insured with LL John and my agent is John Gostinger. He is a great guy!

Randy

My experience with Costello has been nothing but professional and easy.

Perhaps the problem isn't with them...

Kirk
66

Anyone else know what I am talking about?

Nope

On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 1:05:34 PM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:
My experience with Costello has been nothing but professional and easy.

Perhaps the problem isn't with them...

Kirk
66

Kirk,

Perhaps you need a beatdown.

Sean

On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 10:36:19 AM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
To be perfectly honest, every time I talk to Costello (including yesterday) it feels rude, short and uncomfortable. We have a number of pilots in our area who currently use them. In addition I insure a contest and a large hangar thru them. If you listened to the phone calls we have made with fairly simple questions you would think that we were bill collectors instead of paying customers of several years...it is frankly getting that bad. I am strongly considering a change.

I am very disappointed in their general customer care, consistent poor demeanor and very distinct lack of friendly-ness. This is not just I but a number of others and we have all been discussing it recently. Nothing is more important to me after spending 5k a year with someone (2 gliders, hangar, contest). We should be treated like gold, not like a piece of dog****.

Anyone else know what I am talking about?

Sean
F2

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 4:53:14 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
OK, just had to post: Is anyone else here really annoyed at the SSA's
insurance requirement "changes" for this year?

I had an unpleasant experience with Costello when I bought my first
sailplane (2007). I was very satisfied with my move to Avemco for the
last 4 years. They've provided me with comparable rates & coverage,
flexible payment plans, and helpful, friendly staff. Unfortunately,
they cannot comply with the revised/clarified requirements for soaring
contest liability insurance.

In fact, it seems that only one carrier out there words their policy
in a way that the SSA approves of: Costello.

I know that Costello has a positive relationship with the SSA and
witnessed the nice check they handed over to the SSA at the Reno
convention. But setting up a de-facto monopoly just rubs me the wrong
way... Shouldn't private companies be competing to do business with
us, as a group of several-hundred customers (who are likely to have
good income and be a relatively low risk of defaulting on our
payments)?

The "disputed" issue is a little bit of extra coverage for bystanders
(or other pilots in a midair). Does that actually help defuse any
ridiculous litigation or civil suits or financial penalties, in the
wake of an accident? It certainly doesn't provide any special
indemnification for the SSA, so I highly doubt it has a practical
benefit in a legal/liability situation. Seems to me that the primary
benefit of this insurance requirement is that it guarantees Costello a
certain volume of business each year.

Annoyed that I'm being forced to change carriers,

--Noel

I have had excellent service at all times from the fine people at Costello and Assoc.
They go out of their way to be helpful, informative and friendly.
They have all my business
UH

Based on this thread, at least a few SSA pilots are getting the feeling that the general relationship and "uncompromising loyalty" some are trying to display here adds suspicion to the idea that a rather "cozy" relationship has developed between Costello and the SSA. This is based on new SSA insurance guidelines and the fact that Costello seems to be at great competitive advantaged after the change. This doesn't quite pass the smell test for some.

And they are plain rude. Ill record a conversation and post it for everyone.

I insured through Costello for years (they're the SSA's broker of
record, not the actual carrier). When I went on the SSA Board of
Directors back in the late 80s, I learned that the insurance company
itself had begun to insist on a letter from a doctor for older pilots
despite that not being necessary per the FARs. Costello didn't appear
to be fighting it on the SSA's behalf. It put us in the odd position
of representing to the FAA that soaring pilots should continue to be
allowed to self certify their medical fitness but our own SSA
insurance saying something completely different. After this came out,
the Board directed Costello to push back and all was eventually put
right, but I was somewhat annoyed with the whole affair. At the next
SSA convention, I described the situation to the Avemco rep there and
he laughed: "I can't believe you (i.e., the SSA) are sending us all
your best risks (i.e., older, more careful and experienced pilots)." I
got a better quote and switched to Avemco, where I insured happily for
quite a few years. More recently I started worrying about Avemco's
$100K per person limit vs. $1 million per accident and asked if they
could provide the higher limit per person. They said not, even if I
were willing to pay more. So somewhat regretfully, I switched back to
insuring through Costello.

However, they, like Avemco, have been great to deal with. The SSA's
group policy is slightly less flexible than Avemco was regarding
winter storage--Avemco allowed me to stop and restart inflight
coverage it when I wanted, even more than once during the winter if I
didn't get carried away. The SSA policy requires me to pick stop and
restart dates in advance. But otherwise it's been seamless. Actually,
both outfits have been good to work with: polite, responsive, and
helpful. I can heartily recommend both. I understand the reason for
the new policy regarding contest coverage and in today's litigious
climate I can't disagree. As I recall, Avemco has a nice pro-rate
premium clause that would allow an insured to terminate a policy mid-
term in order to switch carriers fairly easily, although Dave Nadler's
post indicates that might not be necessary.

I'm a free-market proponent so I endorse having some competition even
if the soaring market is a tiny one. The fact that it is so small
makes it less likely that any carrier will be as flexible as an
individual pilot might want them to be regarding specific insurance
needs. I haven't heard any horror stories about claims with either the
SSA group policy or Avemco.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
USA

All my dealings with Costello have been via email, and they have given
tremendous service. Fast and very friendly.



On 4/4/2012 7:36 AM, Sean Fidler wrote:
To be perfectly honest, every time I talk to Costello (including yesterday) it feels rude, short and uncomfortable. We have a number of pilots in our area who currently use them. In addition I insure a contest and a large hangar thru them. If you listened to the phone calls we have made with fairly simple questions you would think that we were bill collectors instead of paying customers of several years...it is frankly getting that bad. I am strongly considering a change.

I am very disappointed in their general customer care, consistent poor demeanor and very distinct lack of friendly-ness. This is not just I but a number of others and we have all been discussing it recently. Nothing is more important to me after spending 5k a year with someone (2 gliders, hangar, contest). We should be treated like gold, not like a piece of dog****.

Anyone else know what I am talking about?

Sean
F2

Noel - Avemco did provide me with the required coverage and a
separate binder page for presenting at SSA contests. I've been
very happy with their service for many years and insure a
number of aircraft with them...
Perhaps you should give them another call ?
Best Regards, Dave "YO electric"

Dave -

Sent you a private email. Would love to know who at Avemco you worked
with on this... I've talked to several people and it seems that inside
Avemco there may be different understandings of what they can and
can't do.

I'm also looking at a couple of other carriers as possibilities.

To address some of the comments by others: I'm not trying to trash
Costello. But I found that Avemco gave me more flexible payment
options, could cover both my glider and the Experimental Sonex kit-
plane that I'm building, and my premiums were the same or slightly
less than with Costello. I am loathe to give up the payment
flexibility and deal with multiple insurance carriers for my 2
aircraft (OK, one is still mostly parts in my garage; but I'm still
required to insure it).

Lastly: Anyone who thinks that an insurance policy protects them from
being sued in an accident is ludicrous. In the US, if someone thinks
they can sue you and get more money, they will. I also don't see how
higher coverage will somehow indemnify the SSA from being sued as a
party to the contest (if the argument is that we need higher coverage
at sanctioned contests to "protect" the SSA)...

--Noel

On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 3:54:34 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
Noel - Avemco did provide me with the required coverage and a
separate binder page for presenting at SSA contests. I've been
very happy with their service for many years and insure a
number of aircraft with them...
Perhaps you should give them another call ?
Best Regards, Dave "YO electric"

Dave -

Sent you a private email. Would love to know who at Avemco you worked
with on this... I've talked to several people and it seems that inside
Avemco there may be different understandings of what they can and
can't do.

I'm also looking at a couple of other carriers as possibilities.

To address some of the comments by others: I'm not trying to trash
Costello. But I found that Avemco gave me more flexible payment
options, could cover both my glider and the Experimental Sonex kit-
plane that I'm building, and my premiums were the same or slightly
less than with Costello. I am loathe to give up the payment
flexibility and deal with multiple insurance carriers for my 2
aircraft (OK, one is still mostly parts in my garage; but I'm still
required to insure it).

Lastly: Anyone who thinks that an insurance policy protects them from
being sued in an accident is ludicrous. In the US, if someone thinks
they can sue you and get more money, they will. I also don't see how
higher coverage will somehow indemnify the SSA from being sued as a
party to the contest (if the argument is that we need higher coverage
at sanctioned contests to "protect" the SSA)...

--Noel



On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 3:54:34 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
Noel - Avemco did provide me with the required coverage and a
separate binder page for presenting at SSA contests. I've been
very happy with their service for many years and insure a
number of aircraft with them...
Perhaps you should give them another call ?
Best Regards, Dave "YO electric"

Dave -

Sent you a private email. Would love to know who at Avemco you worked
with on this... I've talked to several people and it seems that inside
Avemco there may be different understandings of what they can and
can't do.

I'm also looking at a couple of other carriers as possibilities.

To address some of the comments by others: I'm not trying to trash
Costello. But I found that Avemco gave me more flexible payment
options, could cover both my glider and the Experimental Sonex kit-
plane that I'm building, and my premiums were the same or slightly
less than with Costello. I am loathe to give up the payment
flexibility and deal with multiple insurance carriers for my 2
aircraft (OK, one is still mostly parts in my garage; but I'm still
required to insure it).

Lastly: Anyone who thinks that an insurance policy protects them from
being sued in an accident is ludicrous. In the US, if someone thinks
they can sue you and get more money, they will. I also don't see how
higher coverage will somehow indemnify the SSA from being sued as a
party to the contest (if the argument is that we need higher coverage
at sanctioned contests to "protect" the SSA)...

--Noel



On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 3:54:34 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
Noel - Avemco did provide me with the required coverage and a
separate binder page for presenting at SSA contests. I've been
very happy with their service for many years and insure a
number of aircraft with them...
Perhaps you should give them another call ?
Best Regards, Dave "YO electric"

Dave -

Sent you a private email. Would love to know who at Avemco you worked
with on this... I've talked to several people and it seems that inside
Avemco there may be different understandings of what they can and
can't do.

I'm also looking at a couple of other carriers as possibilities.

To address some of the comments by others: I'm not trying to trash
Costello. But I found that Avemco gave me more flexible payment
options, could cover both my glider and the Experimental Sonex kit-
plane that I'm building, and my premiums were the same or slightly
less than with Costello. I am loathe to give up the payment
flexibility and deal with multiple insurance carriers for my 2
aircraft (OK, one is still mostly parts in my garage; but I'm still
required to insure it).

Lastly: Anyone who thinks that an insurance policy protects them from
being sued in an accident is ludicrous. In the US, if someone thinks
they can sue you and get more money, they will. I also don't see how
higher coverage will somehow indemnify the SSA from being sued as a
party to the contest (if the argument is that we need higher coverage
at sanctioned contests to "protect" the SSA)...

--Noel