Rocky Mountain Racing Venues

Before packing up my Discus2 and moving to the French Alps, I only had the opportunity to race a couple of times in the USA, and never at a Rocky Mountain Racing Venue. If one defined a “Rocky Mountain Racing Venue (RMRV)” as one where the pilots routinely found themselves at or below the mountains’ tops, which venues would make the list?

Even if one were to take a liberal interpretation of what constitutes a RMRV, the FAI classes have only visited them rarely at the national competition level over the past 10 years. Is it a question of pilots not wanting to travel to those venues, or is it a matter of safety?

Logan would appear to easily meet the definition of a RMRV, but I see that the reviews of the debut national competition held there last year were controversial. Now that the dust on the critiques has settled, were most of the concerns toward the competition’s logistics, or toward the venue itself?

Chris Fleming
F2

On May 24, 6:59*am, Fox Two wrote:
Before packing up my Discus2 and moving to the French Alps, I only had the opportunity to race a couple of times in the USA, and never at a Rocky Mountain Racing Venue. *If one defined a “Rocky Mountain Racing Venue (RMRV)” as one where the pilots routinely found themselves at or below the mountains’ tops, which venues would make the list?

Even if one were to take a liberal interpretation of what constitutes a RMRV, the FAI classes have only visited them rarely at the national competition level over the past 10 years. *Is it a question of pilots not wanting to travel to those venues, or is it a matter of safety?

Chris Fleming
F2
Chris,
Like you I also wonder why the contests in the East seem to be better
attended than contests in the West. There are good venues in the West.
Take a look at Parawan UT and all the sites in the Sierra Nevada's
such as Minden, Air Sailing, Truckee, and Inyokern. All are highly
regarded.

Mostly because it is a 4 day road trip out and 4 days back for the folks from the east coast. Include the contest and that takes a large bite out of a person's vacation schedule (and pocketbook). Toss in various family issues and there you go. BTW, Parowan Sport Class Nats are always highly attended.. Specific locations do make a difference on attendance.
Craig

On Thursday, May 24, 2012 5:59:25 AM UTC-7, Fox Two wrote:
Before packing up my Discus2 and moving to the French Alps, I only had the opportunity to race a couple of times in the USA, and never at a Rocky Mountain Racing Venue. If one defined a “Rocky Mountain Racing Venue (RMRV)” as one where the pilots routinely found themselves at or below the mountains’ tops, which venues would make the list?

Even if one were to take a liberal interpretation of what constitutes a RMRV, the FAI classes have only visited them rarely at the national competition level over the past 10 years. Is it a question of pilots not wanting to travel to those venues, or is it a matter of safety?

Logan would appear to easily meet the definition of a RMRV, but I see that the reviews of the debut national competition held there last year were controversial. Now that the dust on the critiques has settled, were most of the concerns toward the competition’s logistics, or toward the venue itself?

Chris Fleming
F2

I was the weather guy at Logan last year and flew as sniffer most days. The challenge we had was unusually late starts that left much of the field rather close to the mountain - often not much more than ridge running. When conditions kicked in, the site has perhaps some of the best mountain soaring in the west. Definitely not a site for sissies, though!

I have flown a lot more at Parowan and my remarks probably also are applicable to some of the sites closer to Salt Lake City. I have found it much easier there to get up and above the mountains and do some really good cross-country. Early monsoon season is the time to go - enough moisture for cumulus, but not enough instability for widespread storms. Storms are the biggest problem, as they can spread lift-killing cirrus everywhere and then dump rain and strong winds on you!

Across the mountains, the guys in Colorado have a pretty good time, but have never flown there myself. Check OLC and you'll see where the activity is..

Mike

Chris, I think one big difference it the vertical development of our mountains (west US) compared to the Alps - we start at 5000' or more, so there is less to work with - "below the mountain tops" can be challenging unless running a ridge.

Kirk
66

I can certainly appreciate that the distance, time, and expense to travel to and from a Rocky Mountain Racing Venue would be an issue for the east-coasters, but isn't the same true for a west-coaster going to national competitions in the east?

I skimmed the posts regarding last year's competition at Logan, and there were certainly some safety issues. I would assume that the majority of the pilots weren't familiar with the site; was too much asked of them too soon? Was there too much of a home-field advantage in the tasks that were called?

Why am I bringing this up? The Pre-European Gliding Championship begins here in the Southern French Alps next week, but all of this week is a practice week, and there are plenty of bi-place gliders available for those who desire some one-on-one guidance before the points start counting. In the USA, a couple of practice days before the competition are normal; wouldn't a practice WEEK be better for a new, technical site such as Logan? How about an all-out "Mountain Camp?"

It's a shame that the national championships are held at relatively few (but good) racing sites when there appears to be some great Rocky Mountain Racing Venues available.

Chris Fleming

http://www.soaringspot.com/preegc2012/news/story2.html

On May 25, 5:08*am, Fox Two wrote:
I can certainly appreciate that the distance, time, and expense to travel to and from a Rocky Mountain Racing Venue would be an issue for the east-coasters, but isn't the same true for a west-coaster going to national competitions in the east?

I skimmed the posts regarding last year's competition at Logan, and there were certainly some safety issues. *I would assume that the majority of the pilots weren't familiar with the site; was too much asked of them too soon? *Was there too much of a home-field advantage in the tasks that were called?

Why am I bringing this up? *The Pre-European Gliding Championship begins here in the Southern French Alps next week, but all of this week is a practice week, and there are plenty of bi-place gliders available for those who desire some one-on-one guidance before the points start counting. *In the USA, a couple of practice days before the competition are normal; wouldn't a practice WEEK be better for a new, technical site such as Logan? *How about an all-out "Mountain Camp?"

It's a shame that the national championships are held at relatively few (but good) racing sites when there appears to be some great Rocky Mountain Racing Venues available.

Chris Fleming

http://www.soaringspot.com/preegc2012/news/story2.html

I am going to sound biased since I live only 2 hours away from Logan
and fly there at least a few times per year. My main airport is Cedar
Valley just 25 miles south or Salt Lake City. There were a few very
loud detractors of Logan who were quite vocal with their complaints
last year. There were dozens of others who did not agree with their
statements and did speak up but were not as loud and passionate at
least when it comes to posting on the Internet. I personally can
witness that Logan was flown safe by over 90% of the crowd last year.
The remaining 10% decided to glide into more intimidating areas too
low breaking the cardinal rule not to glide out of distance from a
landable field. I was always within glide of a field the entire
contest. There were times I needed to stop and climb so I could
remain that way and watch a few pilots plow ahead lower than myself.
Wonder how they can then complain? My guess is most of the time they
scared themselves but actually still had a field they could have
gotten to if they looked around. I saw statements of flying over
unlandable terrain on days where tasks took them into areas that still
had fields - just not as many as they might have liked but there were
still plenty of landable fields out there. Logan is a great place,
with an amazing huge airport with lots of room for glider operations
but still with its own challenges (can sometimes require a higher tow
to get things going quicker) but it is a DAMN safe venue with amazing
scenery and soaring when the pilots do what they are supposed to and
don't go into wilderness areas too low. I am sure there were plenty
of times at Mifflin this year where pilots might have been pushing it
to stay within a safe glide of a field. Don't rule out Logan as a
fantastic soaring venue.

Stepping off the podium now.
Bruno - B4

On May 24, 6:59*am, Fox Two wrote:
Before packing up my Discus2 and moving to the French Alps, I only had the opportunity to race a couple of times in the USA, and never at a Rocky Mountain Racing Venue. *If one defined a “Rocky Mountain Racing Venue (RMRV)” as one where the pilots routinely found themselves at or below the mountains’ tops, which venues would make the list?

Even if one were to take a liberal interpretation of what constitutes a RMRV, the FAI classes have only visited them rarely at the national competition level over the past 10 years. *Is it a question of pilots not wanting to travel to those venues, or is it a matter of safety?

Logan would appear to easily meet the definition of a RMRV, but I see that the reviews of the debut national competition held there last year were controversial. *Now that the dust on the critiques has settled, were most of the concerns toward the competition’s logistics, or toward the venue itself?

Chris Fleming
F2

There is a nice little race coming up at Moriarity New Mexico in early
June. You may be able to enter as a guest or better. Going there you
may learn a lot concerning your questions. For instance during the
whole race there, you may never fly ridges, would do much better in
thermals going right up the slope and rise way above the peaks where
you would stay for the task.
flying at altitudes between 14000 and 18000 ft which makes for fast
ground speeds. Real Estate, airports that are tight and
busy, the lack of clubs, tow planes etc are other reasons. Possibly
the Rockies have not been discovered yet? Next time
you come, bring some buddies and self launchers to have a great
different experience

Dieter Bibbig
Gliders Of Aspen

On Friday, May 25, 2012 4:46:13 PM UTC+2, Bruno wrote:

I am going to sound biased since I live only 2 hours away from Logan
and fly there at least a few times per year. My main airport is Cedar
Valley just 25 miles south or Salt Lake City. There were a few very
loud detractors of Logan who were quite vocal with their complaints
last year. There were dozens of others who did not agree with their
statements and did speak up but were not as loud and passionate at
least when it comes to posting on the Internet. I personally can
witness that Logan was flown safe by over 90% of the crowd last year.
The remaining 10% decided to glide into more intimidating areas too
low breaking the cardinal rule not to glide out of distance from a
landable field. I was always within glide of a field the entire
contest. There were times I needed to stop and climb so I could
remain that way and watch a few pilots plow ahead lower than myself.
Wonder how they can then complain? My guess is most of the time they
scared themselves but actually still had a field they could have
gotten to if they looked around. I saw statements of flying over
unlandable terrain on days where tasks took them into areas that still
had fields - just not as many as they might have liked but there were
still plenty of landable fields out there. Logan is a great place,
with an amazing huge airport with lots of room for glider operations
but still with its own challenges (can sometimes require a higher tow
to get things going quicker) but it is a DAMN safe venue with amazing
scenery and soaring when the pilots do what they are supposed to and
don't go into wilderness areas too low. I am sure there were plenty
of times at Mifflin this year where pilots might have been pushing it
to stay within a safe glide of a field. Don't rule out Logan as a
fantastic soaring venue.

Stepping off the podium now.
Bruno - B4

First to Dieter:

I'm sure that the competition at Moriarity will be fun; I've actually already flown there. Most of my American soaring was flown in the desert southwest, so I'm quite familiar with the incredible soaring conditions that one can enjoy there! But, soaring thousands of feet ABOVE the mountains isn't the same as soaring THROUGH the mountains! It's a totally different kind of flying, altogether.

On to Bruno:

I agree with you completely, and I believe that you help make my point: Flying at a mountain site can be done safely, but one can't just jump in and expect to be safe. Proper guidance and experience is required, there are just too many unknown unknowns!

One must intimately know the land-out fields that are in the few and far between wilderness areas, and one must be intimately familiar with landing-out at high density altitudes. Maneuvering near the mountainsides and well below the mountain peaks requires an entirely different set of soaring skills, and that must be experienced first-hand.

I would love to see more mountain sites such as Logan succeed as racing venues in the USA. The mountains offer an entirely new level of challenges to the soaring pilot; that's perhaps why so many Europeans flock to the Alps! That's why I moved here!

Chris Fleming

Chris,

I think the biggest issue is that 75% of the contest pilots are flat-landers. Personally, I won't go to a race in the mountains, I don't have the skills or knowledge. Without those tools in your kit, mountain flying is dangerous.