Transponderz

I cannot help cringing at the requirement for WAAS. If WAAS reduced
positional error to ZERO, that is still less than a 50 foot (15 meter)
improvement over non-differentially corrected GPS. If 50 feet is a
factor, they're screwing up.... big time. Does requiring a WAAS
capable GPS make sense to anyone? (aside from the FAA!)



On Oct 26, 8:05*pm, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Friday, October 26, 2012 6:39:14 PM UTC-4, Paul Remde wrote:
The bummer is that even though it is possible to connect a GPS up to the
Trig TT21 or TT22 an send ADS-B data out, the FAA says that is illegal.
They say you must use an approved GPS costing $3000+.

A quick list of the approved GPS position sensors and prices

Freeflight 1201 WAAS/GPS Sensor $2,919.00
Freeflight 1204 WAAS/GPS Sensor $6,889.00

Could not find prices for the NexNav sensors:
NexNav MINI WAAS/GPS Sensor
NexNav MAX WAAS/GPS Sensor

Is NexNav shipping these products?

Maybe the price will come down when more than one vendor is shipping approved products.

What Paul said.

The reason I passed on mode S and bought mode C.

Mike

On Friday, October 26, 2012 4:39:14 PM UTC-6, Paul Remde wrote:
Hi,



The bummer is that even though it is possible to connect a GPS up to the

Trig TT21 or TT22 an send ADS-B data out, the FAA says that is illegal.

They say you must use an approved GPS costing $3000+. I wish we could

convince the FAA that they are reducing safety dramatically by not allowing

any GPS to send data to the TT21/TT22.



Best Regards,



Paul Remde



"K" wrote in message

...











I should add, I have an AEE dipole in the nose about 8 inches from my

feet, but despite 200 watts tested radiated power from the Trig 21, it

does not keep my feet warm...



Ive noticed a marked change in my sex drive with anything past 200 watts..

Seriously, to get back to the OP, I was thinking of a Trig for the ADS-b out

capabilities and the PF for the ADS-B in. This way my set up will not become

obsolete in a few years. Am I correct on this assumption?

The factor you are missing is that approved Aviation GPS have an error
detection system, and send a message (which is included in the 1090ES data
out) to confirm the information is reliable. Low cost GPS doesn't.

In Europe, as I understand it, you can egally connect a low cost GPS to a
TT21 and it will be broadcast in the DS-B out, but including a 'do not rely
on this information' message. That's regardless of WAAS (or EGNOS over
here).



At 15:36 02 November 2012, Grider Pirate wrote:
I cannot help cringing at the requirement for WAAS. If WAAS reduced
positional error to ZERO, that is still less than a 50 foot (15 meter)
improvement over non-differentially corrected GPS. If 50 feet is a
factor, they're screwing up.... big time. Does requiring a WAAS
capable GPS make sense to anyone? (aside from the FAA!)



On Oct 26, 8:05=A0pm, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Friday, October 26, 2012 6:39:14 PM UTC-4, Paul Remde wrote:
The bummer is that even though it is possible to connect a GPS up to
th=
e
Trig TT21 or TT22 an send ADS-B data out, the FAA says that is
illegal.
They say you must use an approved GPS costing $3000+.

A quick list of the approved GPS position sensors and prices

Freeflight 1201 WAAS/GPS Sensor $2,919.00
Freeflight 1204 WAAS/GPS Sensor $6,889.00

Could not find prices for the NexNav sensors:
NexNav MINI WAAS/GPS Sensor
NexNav MAX WAAS/GPS Sensor

Is NexNav shipping these products?

Maybe the price will come down when more than one vendor is shipping
appr=
oved products.

Regardless of ADS-B out capability, you still want
a Mode S transponder, because:
- Mode S consumes less power
- Mode S will not cause a bunch of gliders in a thermal
to become invisible to a TCAS-equipped approaching jet,
as can happen with Mode A/C,
- Mode S can be "de-duplicated" by FLARM, as the transponder
will be identified as redundant with the more-accurate
FLARM information (other FLARM-equipped gliders will
be spared PCAS alarms from your transponder).

Please install Mode S, not Mode C.
You and everybody else will be a lot happier.

Hope that is clear,
Best Regards, Dave

On Friday, November 2, 2012 9:33:19 AM UTC-7, Dave Nadler wrote:
Regardless of ADS-B out capability, you still want

a Mode S transponder, because:

- Mode S consumes less power

- Mode S will not cause a bunch of gliders in a thermal

to become invisible to a TCAS-equipped approaching jet,

as can happen with Mode A/C,

- Mode S can be "de-duplicated" by FLARM, as the transponder

will be identified as redundant with the more-accurate

FLARM information (other FLARM-equipped gliders will

be spared PCAS alarms from your transponder).



Please install Mode S, not Mode C.

You and everybody else will be a lot happier.



Hope that is clear,

Best Regards, Dave

Dave,

I'm interested in more information regarding the rendering "invisible" potential of Mode A/C. I have a Terra Mode C available to me for the coming season & the research I did indicated to me that it is visible to TCAS equipped aircraft as long as the AD has been complied with. Is there something I missed in my research?

Thanks,
Craig

On Friday, November 2, 2012 2:05:34 PM UTC-4, Craig Funston wrote:

Dave,
I'm interested in more information regarding the rendering "invisible"
potential of Mode A/C. I have a Terra Mode C available to me for the
coming season & the research I did indicated to me that it is visible
to TCAS equipped aircraft as long as the AD has been complied with.
Is there something I missed in my research?
Thanks,
Craig

Yes, read especially the technical notes at the bottom of this page:
http://www.gliderpilot.org/FLARM-Transponders

For any new installation, get a Mode S unit !

Hope that helps,
Best Regards, Dave

On Friday, November 2, 2012 11:11:51 AM UTC-7, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Friday, November 2, 2012 2:05:34 PM UTC-4, Craig Funston wrote:



Dave,

I'm interested in more information regarding the rendering "invisible"

potential of Mode A/C. I have a Terra Mode C available to me for the

coming season & the research I did indicated to me that it is visible

to TCAS equipped aircraft as long as the AD has been complied with.

Is there something I missed in my research?

Thanks,

Craig



Yes, read especially the technical notes at the bottom of this page:

http://www.gliderpilot.org/FLARM-Transponders



For any new installation, get a Mode S unit !



Hope that helps,

Best Regards, Dave

Thanks Dave,

That provided the information I needed.

Craig

On Friday, November 2, 2012 2:20:30 PM UTC-5, Craig Funston wrote:
On Friday, November 2, 2012 11:11:51 AM UTC-7, Dave Nadler wrote: On Friday, November 2, 2012 2:05:34 PM UTC-4, Craig Funston wrote: Dave, I'm interested in more information regarding the rendering "invisible" potential of Mode A/C. I have a Terra Mode C available to me for the coming season & the research I did indicated to me that it is visible to TCAS equipped aircraft as long as the AD has been complied with. Is there something I missed in my research? Thanks, Craig Yes, read especially the technical notes at the bottom of this page: http://www.gliderpilot.org/FLARM-Transponders For any new installation, get a Mode S unit ! Hope that helps, Best Regards, Dave Thanks Dave, That provided the information I needed. Craig

if you have the choice sure go with Mode S but if the choice is no transponder or mode c, go with mode c!

i happily installed a Microair mode c transponder in YYY this spring and it worked great all season.

On 11/2/2012 9:33 AM, Dave Nadler wrote:
- Mode S will not cause a bunch of gliders in a thermal
to become invisible to a TCAS-equipped approaching jet,
as can happen with Mode A/C,

Even though the TCAS function doesn't work, is the approaching jet made
aware there are transponders at that 2-D position, altitude unknown?

What happens when the jet approaches a Mode A equipped aircraft? Is the
pilot made aware of it, even though the TCAS system cannot give him
climb/dive command?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On Friday, November 2, 2012 12:44:34 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 11/2/2012 9:33 AM, Dave Nadler wrote:

- Mode S will not cause a bunch of gliders in a thermal

to become invisible to a TCAS-equipped approaching jet,

as can happen with Mode A/C,



Even though the TCAS function doesn't work, is the approaching jet made

aware there are transponders at that 2-D position, altitude unknown?



What happens when the jet approaches a Mode A equipped aircraft? Is the

pilot made aware of it, even though the TCAS system cannot give him

climb/dive command?



--

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to

email me)

Eric,

Not sure if you got a chance to read through the link Dave sent. Good information there. My take-away was that the gaggle problem is one of having multiple Mode C transponders in the same location. That's not a very likely scenario in the Columbia Basin where fly. I'm also not likely to be in controlled airspace so the high rate of interrogation responses isn't as big an issue. Mode C isn't my first choice, but given the choice between no transponder or Mode C in a relatively low traffic environment for the next couple years, I'll take the Mode C and save my pennies for a Trig. At least I'll be visible to jet traffic. I had a close encounter with an A6-E storming through my thermal last year that got my attention.

Craig