New Class for US Nationals

On Friday, November 9, 2012 3:42:28 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Friday, November 9, 2012 4:12:53 PM UTC-5, Tony wrote: Sounds good, now I can fly the Cherokee onto the US Club Class team! Assuming of course that the USTC adopts the winner of this new class for team selection instead of sticking with their current list. Will the same Modern/Club split apply to regional Sports Class contests, assuming there are enough entries? I'm looking forward to the full list of Rule changes for next year, including Std. Class Nationals handicapping and if there will be a 13.5 Meter Nationals. Then I'll be able to plan out the rest of my Summer. Organizers in regionals can split groups in whatever way works best for their entries. That's how we had a 2 seat class in R2N. Yes they could follow Modern/Club. Don't hold your calendar for 13.5 Nationals. Club is only new class for 2013. UH

oh duh I knew that about splitting up regionals...

Figured as much on 13.5 meter. Maybe I just need to borrow a 1-26

Would consider flying the Cirrus in Std. Class nats if they'll be handicapped, even if i have to fly at .95 instead of 1.

On Friday, November 9, 2012 11:42:07 AM UTC-5, John Cochrane wrote:
RW: you're setting new standards of incoherence here


I apply a very simple test on any rule. If RW's not happy, then it's a good rule.

P3

On Friday, November 9, 2012 1:39:32 PM UTC-6, Ron Gleason wrote:
Any changes/enhancements being made to Winscore to handle the two classes or will the scorer have to manually enter handicaps?

It's two separate contests. This should help scorers who previously were producing two scoresheets. Now each glider is in one contest only. Both classes are handicapped per sports rules, including weight adjustments, so no change on that front. Was that the question?
John Cochrane

At 19:15 09 November 2012, John Cochrane wrote:

We made a major improvement by splitting the sports class in two. Now
we're not flying 1-26 vs. Nimbus 4.

If you think that the handicap groups are still too wide, then either

1) bring us lots more gliders, so we can have narrower handicap groups
but more than 3 gliders per "class." RW's pure club class can happen
if 12 gliders below 1.0 start showing up so we can have 3 classes.

2) Go fly FAI classes. The 15 meter class is basically a one-design
class at the moment. 27 and V2.

John Cochrane

Club Class is an FAI class! - however big bucks differnce between buying a
std cirrus or a v2/27 - why not try running it for a few years as a comp
within the IGC definition - you have no probllem doing that with other FAI
classes, and see what happens rather than basing things on past history -
if you want a sports class have it as a seperate comp - my feeling is you
will find club class will be your most subscribed class after a few years.

At 19:15 09 November 2012, John Cochrane wrote:

We made a major improvement by splitting the sports class in two. Now
we're not flying 1-26 vs. Nimbus 4.

If you think that the handicap groups are still too wide, then either

1) bring us lots more gliders, so we can have narrower handicap groups
but more than 3 gliders per "class." RW's pure club class can happen
if 12 gliders below 1.0 start showing up so we can have 3 classes.

2) Go fly FAI classes. The 15 meter class is basically a one-design
class at the moment. 27 and V2.

John Cochrane

Club Class is an FAI class! - however big bucks differnce between buying a
std cirrus or a v2/27 - why not try running it for a few years as a comp
within the IGC definition - you have no probllem doing that with other FAI
classes, and see what happens rather than basing things on past history -
if you want a sports class have it as a seperate comp - my feeling is you
will find club class will be your most subscribed class after a few years.

On Friday, November 9, 2012 7:15:03 PM UTC-5, Paul T wrote:
moment. 27 and V2. John Cochrane Club Class is an FAI class! - however big bucks differnce between buying a std cirrus or a v2/27 - why not try running it for a few years as a comp within the IGC definition - you have no probllem doing that with other FAI classes, and see what happens rather than basing things on past history - if you want a sports class have it as a seperate comp - my feeling is you will find club class will be your most subscribed class after a few years.

One of the problems to be solved was how to implement the Club class without gutting Sports and leaving the people running it with tasking the low performance gliders and the very high performance gliders with nothing in the middle. This approach solves that problem as well as giving a group innthe middle a choice of which class to fly.
It is likely that there will not be a large number of low performance gliders(those below IGC Club performance), but they still need a place to compete. This will allow Club to develop itself.
The principle that nobody gets sent home is a cornerstone our our philosophy.
If the class is a bit less "Clubby" so be it.
UH

On Friday, November 9, 2012 11:42:07 AM UTC-5, John Cochrane wrote:
RW: you're setting new standards of incoherence here



After 98% of racing pilots voted for club class gliders drivers to be considered for US Team,



98%? I'd like to see that poll. I write the poll and read the results

annually. We haven't had 98% on the proposition "should the sky remain

blue?"
I believe it was 2006 racing pilots pool !
After majority of pilots(is this better for you John,or maybe 97%,why exact number is soo important ?)voted for "only club class glider pilots" to be considered for US Team.
John, you are just angry.
RC asked this question and in following years deviated from it quietly, against majority of racing pilots wish.
If this was your decision, I would like you to step down.
I'm sick of your reinventing wheel and continuous changing rules, also treading experience racing pilots as kids.
RW

On Saturday, November 10, 2012 10:30:59 AM UTC-5, RW wrote:
On Friday, November 9, 2012 11:42:07 AM UTC-5, John Cochrane wrote: RW: you're setting new standards of incoherence here After 98% of racing pilots voted for club class gliders drivers to be considered for US Team, 98%? I'd like to see that poll. I write the poll and read the results annually. We haven't had 98% on the proposition "should the sky remain blue?" I believe it was 2006 racing pilots pool ! After majority of pilots(is this better for you John,or maybe 97%,why exact number is soo important ?)voted for "only club class glider pilots" to be considered for US Team. John, you are just angry. RC asked this question and in following years deviated from it quietly, against majority of racing pilots wish. If this was your decision, I would like you to step down. I'm sick of your reinventing wheel and continuous changing rules, also treading experience racing pilots as kids. RW

The question in 2006 Poll was "Should the Club class team be selected only from pilots flying Club class gliders?" The response was 65% yes and 35% no.. The USTC used this guidance to put that requirement in place.
Before quoting statistics RW, maybe you should look them up.
I would note that you seem to be the angry guy, not John.
UH

Can't please everyone! Lol


At 00:11 11 November 2012, wrote:
On Saturday, November 10, 2012 10:30:59 AM UTC-5, RW wrote:
On Friday, November 9, 2012 11:42:07 AM UTC-5, John Cochrane wrote:

RW:=
you're setting new standards of incoherence here After 98% of
ra=
cing pilots voted for club class gliders drivers to be considered for US
Te=
am, 98%? I'd like to see that poll. I write the poll and read the
r=
esults annually. We haven't had 98% on the proposition "should the
sky
=
remain blue?" I believe it was 2006 racing pilots pool ! After
majority=
of pilots(is this better for you John,or maybe 97%,why exact number is
soo=
important ?)voted for "only club class glider pilots" to be considered
for=
US Team. John, you are just angry. RC asked this question and in
following=
years deviated from it quietly, against majority of racing pilots wish.
If=
this was your decision, I would like you to step down. I'm sick of your
re=
inventing wheel and continuous changing rules, also treading experience
rac=
ing pilots as kids. RW

The question in 2006 Poll was "Should the Club class team be selected
only
=
from pilots flying Club class gliders?" The response was 65% yes and 35%
no=
.. The USTC used this guidance to put that requirement in place.
Before quoting statistics RW, maybe you should look them up.
I would note that you seem to be the angry guy, not John.
UH

On Saturday, November 10, 2012 7:11:51 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Saturday, November 10, 2012 10:30:59 AM UTC-5, RW wrote:

On Friday, November 9, 2012 11:42:07 AM UTC-5, John Cochrane wrote: RW: you're setting new standards of incoherence here After 98% of racing pilots voted for club class gliders drivers to be considered for US Team, 98%? I'd like to see that poll. I write the poll and read the results annually. We haven't had 98% on the proposition "should the sky remain blue?" I believe it was 2006 racing pilots pool ! After majority of pilots(is this better for you John,or maybe 97%,why exact number is soo important ?)voted for "only club class glider pilots" to be considered for US Team. John, you are just angry. RC asked this question and in following years deviated from it quietly, against majority of racing pilots wish. If this was your decision, I would like you to step down. I'm sick of your reinventing wheel and continuous changing rules, also treading experience racing pilots as kids. RW



The question in 2006 Poll was "Should the Club class team be selected only from pilots flying Club class gliders?" The response was 65% yes and 35% no. The USTC used this guidance to put that requirement in place.

Before quoting statistics RW, maybe you should look them up.

I would note that you seem to be the angry guy, not John.

UH

Your job was not to violate wish of 65% racing pilots.
This pool was asking all pilots (PW5, 1-26,Open and 18M ect.)
Use your imagination.
Or if its hard, lets ask all pilots : should we quit Open Class Nationals if we get less than 10 real open class entrants?
How many of pilots fly Sports, how many Club ?
Is this number releasing you of your violation ?
I told you before publicly at 2007 Sports Class Nationals in Cesar Creek RC meeting :
Don't ask question if you not gonna like the answer!
If you don't want to serve 65% of all racing pilots , who do you represent ?

RW