Is this the future of our sport?

Will this catch on in the USA?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc_aU...e_gdata_player

It should be but almost certainly will not be within the SSA.

IMO, Grand Prix glider racing is the only "true" test of competition glider pilots. It is a pure race. No compromise or luck involved. Everyone flies thru the same air at the same time essentially. No conditions improving or declining. No picking the best time to connect the clouds ahead, etc. No excuses. Very much like one design sailboat racing. In other words, A REAL RACE.

The typical US task consists of an assigned area task (aka AAT or OLC task) and the "start whenever you want" concept. The good guys ideally start 5-15 min behind the "pack" (they refer to them as markers) with the goal of leeching back up to and thru this pack. Pretty difficult to describe this as a "race." More like a hunt. It is easy to catch gliders ahead generally.. They have to find the lift. You can fly right to it as they mark it once centered. It is about as "un-pure" of a "race" as you can get really. This is actually part luck, part planning and strategy and park skill. It can only loosely be described as a race. I think a hunt or a draft is almost a better description.

Grand Prix RACING would be alot more fun that even FAI rules (assigned tasks). Again, the game with FAI is to start behind your competitors and leech up to them, then stay with them or pass them.

I suspect that Grand Prix would be alot safer as well. The start would have everyone keenly aware of the proximity of the other gliders (spread laterally over a 3-5 mile start line). The pilots ability to time themselves into the start line accurately (not to early, or late) at the maximum altitude would separate the pack naturally from the very beginning. After that it would further string out naturally as the superior pilots pull ahead as they should. The leaders would have earned the lead and have an opportunity to get ahead, stay ahead and have that lead "ACTUALLY MEAN SOMETHING..." Large gaggles would be smaller to non-existent as the task progressed.

It would be very exciting to have our "race" result in the first pilot home being the winner. How much fun would that be? Maybe a spectator could enjoy (understand) the finish for once? Maybe spot tracking would matter. In fact, the "finish" of a glider race (FAI or US) more than often means absolutely nothing. To me, without the opportunity to finishing first the experience feel less enjoyable. We are always wondering if we managed the course well, or missed something. Seeing another glider along the course means very little as to how well you are doing at that point. In fact, one typically has no idea how one is doing during the AAT task up until the scorer runs his complex software which results in a score (not a time...!). Racing is typically a time comparison, no? We don't really have that concept in glider racing. Its average speed...over widely random distances, paths, etc.

I am sure someone could organize a Grand Prix contest in the US. Just may not be SSA sanctioned. I wonder how many might want to try something like this? Email me if you are smfidlerATgmailDOTcom.

It would be pretty easy to set this up. And potentially alot of fun. Handicaps would work fine as well really.

Sean

If I can get there in a days drive, sign me up!

P9

Sean,
Grand prix racing works with 15 gliders or less. Any more and the midair potential is too high. There is leeching, waiting, and gaggle flying in GP racing, just like in FAI racing. By the way, FAI tasking at WGC's includes a healthy dose of turn area tasks, just like the USA nats. You suggest allowing handicaps. If so then your "first one home wins" concept is not always correct. To be this mythical "true race" then all gliders need to be the same, so you have a one design contest like they just did in South Africa with JS1s. Winning the final glide is a big component of GP racing, so having the best prepared glider is even more important than in FAI racing. This is why having a Discus 2a is essential over a 2b or LS8 when the GP contest uses standard class ships, or a Diana 2 over an ASW27 in 15m. This limits participation.
Rick Walters

On Sunday, November 11, 2012 9:28:22 PM UTC-8, Sean F (F2) wrote:
It should be but almost certainly will not be within the SSA.



IMO, Grand Prix glider racing is the only "true" test of competition glider pilots. It is a pure race. No compromise or luck involved. Everyone flies thru the same air at the same time essentially. No conditions improving or declining. No picking the best time to connect the clouds ahead, etc.. No excuses. Very much like one design sailboat racing. In other words, A REAL RACE.



The typical US task consists of an assigned area task (aka AAT or OLC task) and the "start whenever you want" concept. The good guys ideally start 5-15 min behind the "pack" (they refer to them as markers) with the goal of leeching back up to and thru this pack. Pretty difficult to describe this as a "race." More like a hunt. It is easy to catch gliders ahead generally. They have to find the lift. You can fly right to it as they mark it once centered. It is about as "un-pure" of a "race" as you can get really. This is actually part luck, part planning and strategy and park skill. It can only loosely be described as a race. I think a hunt or a draft is almost a better description.



Grand Prix RACING would be alot more fun that even FAI rules (assigned tasks). Again, the game with FAI is to start behind your competitors and leech up to them, then stay with them or pass them.



I suspect that Grand Prix would be alot safer as well. The start would have everyone keenly aware of the proximity of the other gliders (spread laterally over a 3-5 mile start line). The pilots ability to time themselves into the start line accurately (not to early, or late) at the maximum altitude would separate the pack naturally from the very beginning. After that it would further string out naturally as the superior pilots pull ahead as they should. The leaders would have earned the lead and have an opportunity to get ahead, stay ahead and have that lead "ACTUALLY MEAN SOMETHING..." Large gaggles would be smaller to non-existent as the task progressed.



It would be very exciting to have our "race" result in the first pilot home being the winner. How much fun would that be? Maybe a spectator could enjoy (understand) the finish for once? Maybe spot tracking would matter. In fact, the "finish" of a glider race (FAI or US) more than often means absolutely nothing. To me, without the opportunity to finishing first the experience feel less enjoyable. We are always wondering if we managed the course well, or missed something. Seeing another glider along the course means very little as to how well you are doing at that point. In fact, one typically has no idea how one is doing during the AAT task up until the scorer runs his complex software which results in a score (not a time...!). Racing is typically a time comparison, no? We don't really have that concept in glider racing. Its average speed...over widely random distances, paths, etc.



I am sure someone could organize a Grand Prix contest in the US. Just may not be SSA sanctioned. I wonder how many might want to try something like this? Email me if you are smfidlerATgmailDOTcom.



It would be pretty easy to set this up. And potentially alot of fun. Handicaps would work fine as well really.



Sean

On Nov 12, 2:51*am, gotovkotzepkoi
wrote:
I don't know whether this is the future but something needs to take
place fast that depicts gliding as exiting and cool. Otherwise this
sport is toast in the US. Look at how much publicity the World
Championship in Texas got: just about ZERO.

--
gotovkotzepkoi

Great point. Having live feed cameras, and the ability to watch the
entire race from the ground is a huge advancement in sailplane
racing. I thought that if any country in the world would do this, it
would be the good ole United States of America. Guess I was wrong!!!
Does anyone know if the WGC at Uvalde had at least a DVD made?

On Sunday, November 11, 2012 10:12:31 PM UTC-6, Scott Alexander wrote:
Will this catch on in the USA?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc_aU...e_gdata_player

I have SERIOUSLY proposed doing this locally in 1-26s! .. a "1-26 Grand Prix" .. close-in triangle where spectators can watch most of the race from the ground .. we plan to try it next season.
Curt Lewis
Genesis 2 (95)
SGS 1-26B #216

On Monday, November 12, 2012 12:51:34 AM UTC-7, gotovkotzepkoi wrote:
I don't know whether this is the future but something needs to take

place fast that depicts gliding as exiting and cool. Otherwise this

sport is toast in the US. Look at how much publicity the World

Championship in Texas got: just about ZERO.









--

gotovkotzepkoi

Not for a lack of trying. It was pretty hard to penetrate the Olympics qualifying and coverage in the months leading up to the event. Won't be much better in 2016. I did mention to the SSA EXCOM that we might suggest that the IGC consider WGC moving to odd years. There is only one bid for half of the 2016 WGC and the deadline for bids has been extended.

Frank Whiteley

On Monday, November 12, 2012 7:46:26 AM UTC-7, Scott Alexander wrote:
On Nov 12, 2:51*am, gotovkotzepkoi

wrote:

I don't know whether this is the future but something needs to take

place fast that depicts gliding as exiting and cool. Otherwise this

sport is toast in the US. Look at how much publicity the World

Championship in Texas got: just about ZERO.



--

gotovkotzepkoi



Great point. Having live feed cameras, and the ability to watch the

entire race from the ground is a huge advancement in sailplane

racing. I thought that if any country in the world would do this, it

would be the good ole United States of America. Guess I was wrong!!!

Does anyone know if the WGC at Uvalde had at least a DVD made?

AFAIK there may have been a couple of independent video efforts. We'll see.. Live feeds will become increasingly doable and capable. Spot tracking was okay, though some of the competitors had daily 'malfunctions'. It's suggested that Delorme inReach will improve this significantly, but expect both Spot and inReach to be used for some time. Iridium NEXT begins launching in 2015 if it stays on schedule. That could also make live tracking of distance sporting events much more common. Whether it's a paradigm shift isn't clear. Yellowbrick works great for a GP format and inReach may come close at a fraction of the cost may be good for other racing formats also.

Frank Whiteley

Ricing looks fun!

Boggs

On Monday, November 12, 2012 5:12:31 AM UTC+1, Scott Alexander wrote:
Will this catch on in the USA?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc_aU...e_gdata_player

I involuntarily "participated" in one of these GPs. It was 2 years ago in Samedan. I was in a gliding camp at the same time as the GP. We ended up all soaring on the Muottas Muargi trying to gain altitude. It was a really intense hour, maintaining situational awareness with 10+ planes on the same mountain.

The event itself was spectacular and great fun. The life tracking and cockpit video feeds where gripping.

Is it commercial? yes. Can it be underappreciating of the sport? yes.

But i think it has a chance:
* Great visuals (F1 race tracks look booring!)
* Its new to the commonly accepted "world of sports".

All that is left to do is to get it onto mainstream sports TV.

my 2 cents,
- Folken