SY turnpoints (Question for Brit users)

Question for people using BGA turnpoint files generated by TPSelect in
the SY turnpoint format.

Some of the BGA turnpoints have several lines of description. When I look
at these TPs with a text editor I see something along the lines of
"line one, line two, line three, last line", i.e. the description is
always enclosed in double quotes and, if the BGA downloadable Excel
format has more than one line of text, these are separated by commas.

When these are displayed using LK8000 or XCSoar, its all treated as a
single chunk of text, so its displayed like this in the four line text
field:

+============================+
!line one, line two, line !
!three, last line !
! !
! !
+============================+

but it would be easier to read if it was like this:

+============================+
!line one !
!line two !
!line three !
!last line !
+============================+

Scroll bars are added if the description is too big to fit in 4 lines. No
attempt is made to format the text by treating its internal commas as
line breaks.

What I what to know
===================
Does SeeYou Mobile do the same or does it attempt to use the commas to
indicate line breaks? I have the .CUP file specification but it is silent
on this point.

Why I want to know
==================
I've just rewritten the program I use to create loadable files from the
UK landouts database that David Taylor and I are putting together. Last
season the program only produced outputs usable by LK8000 and XCSoar,
i.e., a CAI/Winpilot turnpoints file and a Waypoint Notes file containing
a description of each landout field. The new version can also produce
output as a .CUP format file.

However, as the longer descriptions look like a dogs dinner with all the
lines crammed together as one lump with commas sprinkled in it, I'd like
to format it properly (like I can do for LK8000/XCSoar) if at all
possible.

So, for starters I'd like to know what SYM does long BGA TP descriptions.

Does it too leave the text in a goobly lump with commas sprinkled into it
or does it treat them as line breaks?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:50:02 +0000, Tim Newport-Peace wrote:


You might get more answers if you posted on Gliderpilot.Net, which is a
UK-specific group.

Basically, the reason you get a "goobly lump" is that in CUP files,
there is only one field for available for Description, but the BGA
Database has several field of Description, which are all concatenated
into one field in the CUP file, separated by commas.

I realize that's the reason that the displayed result is messy when the TP
file is fed to LK8000 or XCSoar: these programs treat the commas as just
another printable character and only line wrap at whitespace to prevent
words being split. What I'm trying to find out is if Jeff's TPSelect uses
commas as line delimiters because SYM, which I don't have a copy of, is
written treat commas as line delimiters. I've just mailed him as well
with the same question.

There is no mention of formatting very long descriptions in the "SeeYou
Waypoint file format description" on the naviter.com website, but as the
description can be arbitrarily long they must be using some form of line
wrapping, even in it is just 'start a newline every n characters'.

I'm only referring specifically to the BGA TP list because I know it
contains multi-line descriptions and that TPSelect injects commas at the
line breaks in its master file when its generating a CUP file: for CAI/
Winpilot output files it terminates the comment at the first linebreak.
The same considerations would apply to any other waypoint file that uses
the CUP file format.

I posted here because Naviter people sometimes read r.a.s and I don't
know whether the same applies to gliderpilot.net forums.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Hello Martin,

both lk8000 and xcsoar have a dedicated file for text informations about
waypoints.
In LK we call it WAYNOTES.txt , and it is documented in the manual.
There you can print all the text, pages if you want, for each waypoint just
like you would do for a mail to a friend.
But the problem for you is that you want to make a portable and common CUP
file for all programs, of course, and then you must stay with the CUP format
which has no line separations inside comment.

However, speaking for LK, it is very easy to agree on a line separation
which would be used while displaying the comment in the waypoint comment
box, which is scrollable as you well know.
For example, if we agree that we can all use the | character as a line
separator, then it wont hurt to see it if the software does not manage it.

I would suggest to consider the CUP "styles" carefully, because we do use it
to visualize symbols on the moving map, and for smart selection during
flight to give - for example - priority to mountain passes, or to special
places.
For thermals the NDB style is commonly used, I think.

regards
paolo


"Martin Gregorie" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:50:02 +0000, Tim Newport-Peace wrote:


You might get more answers if you posted on Gliderpilot.Net, which is a
UK-specific group.

Basically, the reason you get a "goobly lump" is that in CUP files,
there is only one field for available for Description, but the BGA
Database has several field of Description, which are all concatenated
into one field in the CUP file, separated by commas.

I realize that's the reason that the displayed result is messy when the TP
file is fed to LK8000 or XCSoar: these programs treat the commas as just
another printable character and only line wrap at whitespace to prevent
words being split. What I'm trying to find out is if Jeff's TPSelect uses
commas as line delimiters because SYM, which I don't have a copy of, is
written treat commas as line delimiters. I've just mailed him as well
with the same question.

There is no mention of formatting very long descriptions in the "SeeYou
Waypoint file format description" on the naviter.com website, but as the
description can be arbitrarily long they must be using some form of line
wrapping, even in it is just 'start a newline every n characters'.

I'm only referring specifically to the BGA TP list because I know it
contains multi-line descriptions and that TPSelect injects commas at the
line breaks in its master file when its generating a CUP file: for CAI/
Winpilot output files it terminates the comment at the first linebreak.
The same considerations would apply to any other waypoint file that uses
the CUP file format.

I posted here because Naviter people sometimes read r.a.s and I don't
know whether the same applies to gliderpilot.net forums.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 01:43:57 +0100, pcool wrote:

But the problem for you is that you want to make a portable and common
CUP file for all programs, of course, and then you must stay with the
CUP format which has no line separations inside comment.

Exactly so. I was wondering if SYM might use commas as line delimiters
inside the (quoted) description, but it doesn't: commas are displayed
just like any other character. Long descriptions are split on the last
whitespace that fits into the line.

So, this is no different from LK8000 and XCSoar except that the SYM
display area is a little narrower and has several more lines to fill
before there's any need to scroll up and down in its display area.

I'll contact you offline about this.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |