Variable geometry intakes

are variable geometry intakes on fighter aircraft primarily there to reduce
ram drag or to manipulate the shock wave in the nacelle?

--



Curiosity killed the cat, and I'm gonna find out why!

In article ,
"Boomer" wrote:

are variable geometry intakes on fighter aircraft primarily there to reduce
ram drag or to manipulate the shock wave in the nacelle?


Both -- The most efficient inlet geometry has the shock wave impinging
on the inlet lip; if it impinges inside, the inlet "swallows the shock,"
which leads to compressor stall.

Both -- The most efficient inlet geometry has the shock wave impinging
on the inlet lip; if it impinges inside, the inlet "swallows the shock,"
which leads to compressor stall.

It isn't necessary that all shocks be external to the inlet, only that
stable subsonic air reach the compressor face. Some inlets are designed to
create several oblique shocks within the inlet prior to reaching a point
where an expansion of cross-sectional area (diffuser) creates a final normal
shock to decelerate the air.

R / John

It isn't necessary that all shocks be external to the inlet, only that
stable subsonic air reach the compressor face. Some inlets are designed to
create several oblique shocks within the inlet prior to reaching a point
where an expansion of cross-sectional area (diffuser) creates a final normal
shock to decelerate the air.

R / John

Amplifying on John's well written technical description, engine thrust is
directly proportional to air pressure at the engine face. The primary
objective of a variable geometry engine inlet is to effect a maximum pressure
recovery of the air prior to arrival at the engine compressor face. The shock
wave development that John describes, especially the final normal shock wave,
accomplishes this. The pronounced effect of an inlet system that fails to
articulate is quite amazing. While I have never had an inlet system fail
during functional check flights in the F-111, a couple of my colleagues have.
In one case, the central air data computer Mach signal failed to reach both
inlets. Their F-111F barely attained Mach 1.7 in Maximum Afterburner. The F
model had the largest engines in the fleet, and could attain Mach 1.1 in
Military power on the deck, and Mach 2.5 in less than Maximum Afterburner at
altitude. They brought the jet back, maintenance repaired the problem, and
they flew it again the next day. They hit Mach 2.5 without breaking a sweet.
I haven't heard only one inlet not articulating, however, I would imagine that
the first clue would be the pilot adding rudder into the "good" engine as the
Mach increased.

The other factors, such as flow smoothing and resistance to angle of attack
excusions, do not require a variable geometry configuration. A well designed
fixed geometry inlet can accomplish these objectives.





Kurt Todoroff


Markets, not mandates and mob rule.
Consent, not compulsion.

Remove "DELETEME" from my address to reply

The pronounced effect of an inlet system that fails to
articulate is quite amazing. While I have never had an inlet system fail
during functional check flights in the F-111, a couple of my colleagues have.

In one case, the central air data computer Mach signal failed to reach both
inlets. Their F-111F barely attained Mach 1.7 in Maximum Afterburner. The F
model had the largest engines in the fleet, and could attain Mach 1.1 in
Military power on the deck, and Mach 2.5 in less than Maximum Afterburner at
altitude. They brought the jet back, maintenance repaired the problem, and
they flew it again the next day. They hit Mach 2.5 without breaking a sweet.

I haven't heard only one inlet not articulating, however, I would imagine
that
the first clue would be the pilot adding rudder into the "good" engine as the
Mach increased.

The other factors, such as flow smoothing and resistance to angle of attack
excusions, do not require a variable geometry configuration. A well designed
fixed geometry inlet can accomplish these objectives.





Kurt Todoroff


Once in a while the variable inlet bellmouth rings on the F-4 at the
engine/inlet duct interface would fail to move at M 2.0+. The rings rotated
about 90 degrees or so as the ramps closed down to dump excess air at high
speed but didn't get that much use. Corrosion would cause the cable and pulley
system to corrode and not move freely.. When that happened the engine was very
stall susceptible. I had one happen when flying a Funcfional Check Flight.
Interesting experoence to compressor stall at M 2.3. Even with the centerline
thrust F-4 the bang and yaw pretty violent.

During early flight testingof the the F-16 with the F-110 engine in 85, we
had a test bird with the large inlet, IIRC, that the pilots called Thumper
because of banging in the inlet due to airflow. The engine was pretty stall
resistant with the electonic control but the pilots said the banging was enough
to bounce their feet off the rudder pedals.Apparently at some speeds and
configurations in this particilar aircraft, the shockwave would draw back into
the inlet. The banging was due to oilcanning of the sheetmetal from the
pressure drop across the shockwave as shown by additional instrumentation and
high speed photography.

VERY interesting stuff guys thanks :-)
was wondering this: F-15 has nacelles that physically move externally,
whereas F-14 is fixxed externally yet they have somewhat similar performance
in the upper right of the envelope. How does the F-14 deal with reducing ram
drag ? It appears the F-15 can simly move it's nacelles down to restrict air
flow. I know F-14 has shock ramps inside to deal with the shock wave, but
what does it do about ram?

--



Curiosity killed the cat, and I'm gonna find out why!
"SteveM8597" wrote in message
...
The pronounced effect of an inlet system that fails to
articulate is quite amazing. While I have never had an inlet system fail
during functional check flights in the F-111, a couple of my colleagues
have.

In one case, the central air data computer Mach signal failed to reach
both
inlets. Their F-111F barely attained Mach 1.7 in Maximum Afterburner.
The F
model had the largest engines in the fleet, and could attain Mach 1.1 in
Military power on the deck, and Mach 2.5 in less than Maximum Afterburner
at
altitude. They brought the jet back, maintenance repaired the problem,
and
they flew it again the next day. They hit Mach 2.5 without breaking a
sweet.

I haven't heard only one inlet not articulating, however, I would imagine
that
the first clue would be the pilot adding rudder into the "good" engine as
the
Mach increased.

The other factors, such as flow smoothing and resistance to angle of
attack
excusions, do not require a variable geometry configuration. A well
designed
fixed geometry inlet can accomplish these objectives.





Kurt Todoroff


Once in a while the variable inlet bellmouth rings on the F-4 at the
engine/inlet duct interface would fail to move at M 2.0+. The rings
rotated
about 90 degrees or so as the ramps closed down to dump excess air at high
speed but didn't get that much use. Corrosion would cause the cable and
pulley
system to corrode and not move freely.. When that happened the engine was
very
stall susceptible. I had one happen when flying a Funcfional Check
Flight.
Interesting experoence to compressor stall at M 2.3. Even with the
centerline
thrust F-4 the bang and yaw pretty violent.

During early flight testingof the the F-16 with the F-110 engine in 85,
we
had a test bird with the large inlet, IIRC, that the pilots called Thumper
because of banging in the inlet due to airflow. The engine was pretty
stall
resistant with the electonic control but the pilots said the banging was
enough
to bounce their feet off the rudder pedals.Apparently at some speeds and
configurations in this particilar aircraft, the shockwave would draw back
into
the inlet. The banging was due to oilcanning of the sheetmetal from the
pressure drop across the shockwave as shown by additional instrumentation
and
high speed photography.

"Boomer" wrote in message
...
VERY interesting stuff guys thanks :-)
was wondering this: F-15 has nacelles that physically move externally,
whereas F-14 is fixxed externally yet they have somewhat similar
performance
in the upper right of the envelope. How does the F-14 deal with reducing
ram
drag ? It appears the F-15 can simly move it's nacelles down to restrict
air
flow. I know F-14 has shock ramps inside to deal with the shock wave, but
what does it do about ram?

This is a pretty good graphic of the system.
http://www.anft.net/f-14/f14-detail-airintake.htm

OBTW, the F-14A programming optimized performance at the upper end and
(theoretically) could outaccelerate an F15A above 1.6 or so. Ramp
reprogramming, elimination of the glove vanes, and some additional drag
counts make the F-14B (and moreso the D) slower above 1.6 than the old A
with significantly less thrust. OTOH, the B and D have their ramp
scheduling optimized for real world tactical requirements. They're awesome
in the transonic range. A clean F-14B/D can exceed both its NATOPS and
manufacturer's KIAS placard limits, even if they're barely mach 2 capable
(if that, I've heard 1.9).

R / John

"John Carrier" wrote in message
news |
|
| OBTW, the F-14A programming optimized performance at the upper end and
| (theoretically) could outaccelerate an F15A above 1.6 or so. Ramp
| reprogramming, elimination of the glove vanes, and some additional drag
| counts make the F-14B (and moreso the D) slower above 1.6 than the old A
| with significantly less thrust. OTOH, the B and D have their ramp
| scheduling optimized for real world tactical requirements. They're
awesome
| in the transonic range. A clean F-14B/D can exceed both its NATOPS and
| manufacturer's KIAS placard limits, even if they're barely mach 2 capable
| (if that, I've heard 1.9).
|
| R / John
|



How relevant is Mach 2+ performance these days - how relevant was it at all
?


I can imagine high speed being useful when intercepting the odd Foxbat or
two, but otherwise - how often would you require such high speeds ?





Cheers


Dave Kearton

How relevant is Mach 2+ performance these days - how relevant was it at all
? BRBR

This is the same pedantic question that I've heard for twenty-nine years.

These velocities are a consequence of meeting specific excess power
requirements (P_s). A positive P_s allows an aircraft to accelerate (gain
velocity), sustain G, or climb in altitude, or any of these three. P_s does
not come free. P_s is computed as:

(Thrust - Drag) * Velocity / Weight

A natural consequence of a fighter's design is speed. The design is a result
of tradeoffs. The fact that fighters rarely exercise their supersonic
capabilities is not relevent. By reducing the thrust of the engines to limit
the aircraft speed to M-1.5 or M-1.0, the aircraft's performance is other
realms is sharply limited as well.

Since high speed is a natural consequence of a fighter's design, the USAF and
USN have taken advantage of it.




Kurt Todoroff


Markets, not mandates and mob rule.
Consent, not compulsion.

Thanks for the link and Tom stats JC :-)

--



Curiosity killed the cat, and I'm gonna find out why!
"Kurt R. Todoroff" wrote in message
...
How relevant is Mach 2+ performance these days - how relevant was it at
all
? BRBR

This is the same pedantic question that I've heard for twenty-nine years.

These velocities are a consequence of meeting specific excess power
requirements (P_s). A positive P_s allows an aircraft to accelerate (gain
velocity), sustain G, or climb in altitude, or any of these three. P_s
does
not come free. P_s is computed as:

(Thrust - Drag) * Velocity / Weight

A natural consequence of a fighter's design is speed. The design is a
result
of tradeoffs. The fact that fighters rarely exercise their supersonic
capabilities is not relevent. By reducing the thrust of the engines to
limit
the aircraft speed to M-1.5 or M-1.0, the aircraft's performance is other
realms is sharply limited as well.

Since high speed is a natural consequence of a fighter's design, the USAF
and
USN have taken advantage of it.




Kurt Todoroff


Markets, not mandates and mob rule.
Consent, not compulsion.