Toxic Depleted Uranium Rounds... for Brooks

"The Enlightenment" wrote in message
...

"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote in message
...

"robert arndt" wrote in message
m...
http://www.citizen-soldier.org/CS09-uranium.html

It's toxic, moron... and the Germans can do just as much damage
with
their tungsten rounds
Believe me, the L55 main gun plus DM-53 ammo will ruin your day.
At least the Germany Army isn't poisoning its own troops by using
"partially-depleted (correct term)uranium"...

LOL....

How about instead of using a radical leftist anti-war site with a
political
agenda as a source, we use a scientific one?

Ok then:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...nitions/du.htm

SNIP cuts from above URLs


"US forces also use DU to enhance their tanks' armor protection. In
one
noteworthy incident, an M1A1 Abrams Main Battle Tank, its thick
steel armor
reinforced by a layer of DU sandwiched between two layers of steel,
rebuffed
a close-in attack by three of Iraq's T-72 tanks. After deflecting
three hits
from Iraq's tanks, the Abrams' crew dispatched the T-72s with a
single DU
round to each of the three Iraqi tanks."

Yep, I think that we'll keep our DU right where it is.

I believe the M1A2 has dropped the DU armour in favour of Chobham
style armour.

Eh? The *original* M1 used composite armor (as you say, "Chobham style").
The M1A1 HA variant (or block II M1A1) introduced the DU into the mix.
M1A2's are a bit heavier than even the M1A1HA, so it would appear the DU
remains in the mix. There is a mention that the export version of the M1A2
(which would be new build) does not have the DU, but it is kind of hard to
tell for sure, as the exact armor composition is still classified.

Brooks

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"The Enlightenment" wrote in message
...



I believe the M1A2 has dropped the DU armour in favour of Chobham
style armour.



And what exactly do you think is used in Chobham armour ?

Hint: its generally believed to be made of layers
of ceramic and some hard heavy metal.

Not originally, from what I have read. IIRC the original composition was
reportedly steel with a ceramic layer (or layers), with the DU being added
later by the US (I don't recall its being used by the Challenger II?).

Brooks


Keith

"The Enlightenment" wrote in message
...

"Tank Fixer" wrote in message
k.net...
In article ,
on 5 May 2004 11:24:25 -0700,
robert arndt attempted to say .....

http://www.citizen-soldier.org/CS09-uranium.html

It's toxic, moron... and the Germans can do just as much damage
with
their tungsten rounds
Believe me, the L55 main gun plus DM-53 ammo will ruin your day.
At least the Germany Army isn't poisoning its own troops by using
"partially-depleted (correct term)uranium"...


Hmmm,
isn't tungsten considered a heavy metal ?

I don't think I'll be jumping in any damaged tanks after a strike of
your
"uber"round without the proper protective measures.

I'm not fond of heavy metal poisoning...

Not all heavy metals are equaly dangerous. Silver is highly toxic but
doesn't concentrat in tissues which is why it has antiseptic
properties. I haven't bothered checking in regards to tungsten.

Heavy metals are generaly nasty for people. It is possible to use
chelating substances to remove some. Selenium is chelating (don't
overdose on it) and believe it or not a modified form of chelating
citrus pectin sold by life extension foundation http://www.lef.org

Much of the heavy metal contamination such as mercury and lead comes
from coal and heavy bunker oil. It concentrates in the food chain
especialy fish and althougt it may spare a mature male it can wreak
havoc with an embroyo and its rapidly dividing cells or possibly screw
with sensitive parts of the body, sperm or egg cells etc.

We need to keep this stuff away from our women and children. After
all what is war for but them.

Beware being a bit overly alarming vis a vis lead contamination. There was a
case here in the US a few years back where the EPA tried to steamroll into
the Aspen, CO area with prognostications of serious health risks and the
need for immediate remediation efforts to handle the high lead levels that
were a result of silver mining/processing back in the good ol' days. Luckily
for the locals, they were a bit more savvy and better financed than some of
the other areas where the EPA has ridden in roughshod to "improve" the
quality of life. The EPA was *certain* they would find lead levels in the
blood exceeeding their 10 micrograms per deciliter limit in "99% of the
local children". The locals insisted upon testing before they would agree to
any remediation effort, and the actual blood tests revealed an average level
around 3 micrograms per deciliter, which was actually among the lower levels
observed around the nation. Even in the face of that proof the EPA was
reluctant to give up on taking control in the local area...

Brooks

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...


Not originally, from what I have read. IIRC the original composition was
reportedly steel with a ceramic layer (or layers), with the DU being added
later by the US (I don't recall its being used by the Challenger II?).

Brooks


Challenger II is officially listed as being protected by
second generation Chobham armour, the exact
composition os of course secret but the understanding
I have is it uses either DU or tungsten in place of
the steel in first generation armor

Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...


Not originally, from what I have read. IIRC the original composition was
reportedly steel with a ceramic layer (or layers), with the DU being
added
later by the US (I don't recall its being used by the Challenger II?).

Brooks


Challenger II is officially listed as being protected by
second generation Chobham armour, the exact
composition os of course secret but the understanding
I have is it uses either DU or tungsten in place of
the steel in first generation armor

Odd, since from what I have read the aggregate weight increase between
Challeneger I and Challeneger II is only about 500 kg; OTOH, the change from
the M1 to the M1A1 brought a change in weight of about six *tons* (and that
change from the 105mm to the 120mm gun did not account for a great deal of
that, I'd imagine). How could they have switched to a DU (or tungsten) armor
package and only increase the vehicle weight by some thousand pounds plus in
the case of Challenger?

Brooks


Keith

On Tue, 11 May 2004 09:47:33 -0400, "Kevin Brooks"
wrote:


"The Enlightenment" wrote in message
...

"Tank Fixer" wrote in message
k.net...
In article ,
on 5 May 2004 11:24:25 -0700,
robert arndt attempted to say .....

http://www.citizen-soldier.org/CS09-uranium.html

It's toxic, moron... and the Germans can do just as much damage
with
their tungsten rounds
Believe me, the L55 main gun plus DM-53 ammo will ruin your day.
At least the Germany Army isn't poisoning its own troops by using
"partially-depleted (correct term)uranium"...


Hmmm,
isn't tungsten considered a heavy metal ?

I don't think I'll be jumping in any damaged tanks after a strike of
your
"uber"round without the proper protective measures.

I'm not fond of heavy metal poisoning...

Not all heavy metals are equaly dangerous. Silver is highly toxic but
doesn't concentrat in tissues which is why it has antiseptic
properties. I haven't bothered checking in regards to tungsten.

Heavy metals are generaly nasty for people. It is possible to use
chelating substances to remove some. Selenium is chelating (don't
overdose on it) and believe it or not a modified form of chelating
citrus pectin sold by life extension foundation http://www.lef.org

Much of the heavy metal contamination such as mercury and lead comes
from coal and heavy bunker oil. It concentrates in the food chain
especialy fish and althougt it may spare a mature male it can wreak
havoc with an embroyo and its rapidly dividing cells or possibly screw
with sensitive parts of the body, sperm or egg cells etc.

We need to keep this stuff away from our women and children. After
all what is war for but them.

Beware being a bit overly alarming vis a vis lead contamination. There was a
case here in the US a few years back where the EPA tried to steamroll into
the Aspen, CO area with prognostications of serious health risks and the
need for immediate remediation efforts to handle the high lead levels that
were a result of silver mining/processing back in the good ol' days. Luckily
for the locals, they were a bit more savvy and better financed than some of
the other areas where the EPA has ridden in roughshod to "improve" the
quality of life. The EPA was *certain* they would find lead levels in the
blood exceeeding their 10 micrograms per deciliter limit in "99% of the
local children". The locals insisted upon testing before they would agree to
any remediation effort, and the actual blood tests revealed an average level
around 3 micrograms per deciliter, which was actually among the lower levels
observed around the nation. Even in the face of that proof the EPA was
reluctant to give up on taking control in the local area...

Brooks





"http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/01/040122090433.htm
Blue Skies
Pat Carpenter

In article ,
on Tue, 11 May 2004 13:03:37 +0100,
Keith Willshaw attempted to say .....


"The Enlightenment" wrote in message
...



I believe the M1A2 has dropped the DU armour in favour of Chobham
style armour.



And what exactly do you think is used in Chobham armour ?

Hint: its generally believed to be made of layers
of ceramic and some hard heavy metal.


Marshmellows, graham crackers and hershey bars............


--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message ...
"The Enlightenment" wrote in message
...

"Tank Fixer" wrote in message
k.net...
In article ,
on 5 May 2004 11:24:25 -0700,
robert arndt attempted to say .....

http://www.citizen-soldier.org/CS09-uranium.html

It's toxic, moron... and the Germans can do just as much damage
with
their tungsten rounds
Believe me, the L55 main gun plus DM-53 ammo will ruin your day.
At least the Germany Army isn't poisoning its own troops by using
"partially-depleted (correct term)uranium"...


Hmmm,
isn't tungsten considered a heavy metal ?

I don't think I'll be jumping in any damaged tanks after a strike of
your
"uber"round without the proper protective measures.

I'm not fond of heavy metal poisoning...

Not all heavy metals are equaly dangerous. Silver is highly toxic but
doesn't concentrat in tissues which is why it has antiseptic
properties. I haven't bothered checking in regards to tungsten.

Heavy metals are generaly nasty for people. It is possible to use
chelating substances to remove some. Selenium is chelating (don't
overdose on it) and believe it or not a modified form of chelating
citrus pectin sold by life extension foundation http://www.lef.org

Much of the heavy metal contamination such as mercury and lead comes
from coal and heavy bunker oil. It concentrates in the food chain
especialy fish and althougt it may spare a mature male it can wreak
havoc with an embroyo and its rapidly dividing cells or possibly screw
with sensitive parts of the body, sperm or egg cells etc.

We need to keep this stuff away from our women and children. After
all what is war for but them.

Beware being a bit overly alarming vis a vis lead contamination. There was a
case here in the US a few years back where the EPA tried to steamroll into
the Aspen, CO area with prognostications of serious health risks and the
need for immediate remediation efforts to handle the high lead levels that
were a result of silver mining/processing back in the good ol' days. Luckily
for the locals, they were a bit more savvy and better financed than some of
the other areas where the EPA has ridden in roughshod to "improve" the
quality of life. The EPA was *certain* they would find lead levels in the
blood exceeeding their 10 micrograms per deciliter limit in "99% of the
local children". The locals insisted upon testing before they would agree to
any remediation effort, and the actual blood tests revealed an average level
around 3 micrograms per deciliter, which was actually among the lower levels
observed around the nation. Even in the face of that proof the EPA was
reluctant to give up on taking control in the local area...

Brooks


Most agencies in the USA seem to be getting out of hand and more and
more prosecutorial and even draconian. They are getting 'self
serving'. I've seen this in divisions in a company, charities,
political organisations etc and even the military.

Once they do their basic job they start expanding their area of
interest and adding extra goals and visions. This builds careers,
empires, power etc. The usual practice in business is to kill a
division now and then.

All of these agencies in the USA don't seem to be counterbalanced
effectively anymore. I think it simply takes to many resources to
fund the court battles to do so while the agencies have access to
effectively unlimited resources. All those MBAs and Lawyers and
Phiranhas gotta eat.

Something like the EPA is obviously needed in a population of 250
million althout the need for it would be minimal in a population of
125 million.

I know a woman who ate fish 6 times a week to stay slim and healthy.
She had nearly a dozen miscariages. When she had her deformed
placenta tested it was 200-400 times the safe limit. There are lots
of sources of it: combution of oil and coal adds a lot. You need to
know what fish to eat. Basically short lived fish low in the food
chain.

Given that most military personel are probably some of the better
specimens in society it's extremely important to protect their
reproductive health.

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in
:

There is a mention that the export version of the M1A2
(which would be new build) does not have the DU, but it is kind of
hard to tell for sure, as the exact armor composition is still
classified.


It's difficult to over emphasise just *HOW* classified all these armour
compositions are. Talking to a tankee at Bovington a while back, he
mentioned that they were in the maintenance sheds one day working on
their vehicles when a team from Vickers arrived to do something regarding
the armour. All the operators of the vehicle were told to leave the area
and pop down the NAAFI for a few hours while they did the necessary work
and allowed them back to their vehicles. . .

--
Regards
Drewe
"Better the pride that resides
In a citizen of the world
Than the pride that divides
When a colourful rag is unfurled"

On Wed, 12 May 2004 02:14:00 GMT, Tank Fixer
wrote:


And what exactly do you think is used in Chobham armour ?

Hint: its generally believed to be made of layers
of ceramic and some hard heavy metal.


Marshmellows, graham crackers and hershey bars............

Nah, 100% pure depleted unobtainium.


greg

--
"vying with Platt for the largest gap
between capability and self perception"