Best places for a soaring pilot to retire?

HI Chris. I was wondering if you could write a bit about the soaring in France (how how long the season is, how strong the thermals, many glider ports and variety of terrain, is there good wave, ridge, good xc options... etc..) What is it like living France... I know none of the above but somehow I find myself jealous

Le mardi 17 février 2015 22:10:49 UTC+1, Jonathan St. Cloud a écrit*:
HI Chris. I was wondering if you could write a bit about the soaring in France (how how long the season is, how strong the thermals, many glider ports and variety of terrain, is there good wave, ridge, good xc options... etc.) What is it like living France... I know none of the above but somehow I find myself jealous

I've been flying in this region for the last 20 years in la Motte du Caire, Seyne-les-Alpes and since a couple of years in Fayence (Chris, I'm the nuthole who had blocked your trailer with my rigged Ventus in the morning something like two years ago...).

Season goes typically from March to end of September. Two large clubs (Fayence and Vinon) have all-year-round activity, but winter thermals are fairly week. Variety of terrain is almost flat land to the south (Vinon) to... well anywhere you want to go in the Alps. Highest summit would be Mt Blanc about 250 km north of Fayence with 4800m.
Right (10 km) North of Fayence start the French Sea Alps, which is a mountain range about 100 km with tops in the 2000-2500m, giving to the high alpine region with 3000-4000m tops.
Thermal strength is anything from 1 to 10 knots (rarely above), and on a real good day you don't stop for anything below 6 knots. Ceilings are 3000-4000 m on good days, which means that you often fly the ridges to climb, and you have to manage mountain passes. Going from Fayence to Switzerland involves passing several passes into different meterological regions, with 2 mountain pass at 300 m. An out-and-return from Fayence to the Furka Pass is 800 km and takes you along the most spectacular landscape in Europe.
Outlanding field have to be carefully managed as valleys are deep and narrow. However, there is are catalogues of referenced fields for France, Switzerland and Austria, with each field presented with photos, GPS reference, elevation, do's and don'ts. So although sometimes the next field may be 50 km away, you can fly safely and most of the time, there are several options.

There are frequently wave days, notably with strong Northern wind (called "Mistral") which is a stable meterological situation, often lasting for a couple of days. Klaus Ohlmann did an out-and-return from Serres to Wiener Neustadt some years ago, which is 1400 km. There is also some wave with strong Western or Southern wind preceeding a frontal system (and often not even holding for the whole day). During wave conditions, outlanding is better restricted to airfields.

Living in France... I've been living in Grenoble (roughly 100 km north of Provence) for a good 5 years, but that's been almost 20 years ago (now I live in the French part of Switzerland - mountains start at 3000 m right away ;-)), but I did like it. Living on the French Riviera is certainly a much sweeter plan, but you probably want to flee the crowds moving down from Paris durng July/August. But that's the time you want to spend in the air anyways ;-) I have a very good friend living close to Hyères, and he spends summers on the airfiled, and winters going sailing.

Bert
TW

Le mercredi 18 février 2015 09:07:44 UTC+1, a écrit*:
... different meterological regions, with 2 mountain pass at 300 m...

Bert
TW

Oups, that would be 3000 m.

And John, should you be jealous?

Certainly so. :-D

Bert
TW

On Sunday, February 15, 2015 at 2:41:00 PM UTC-7, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
Looking for new Ideas for places to retire. The usual considerations apply; cost of living, health care, weather, and available soaring. Doesn't have to be the US. near water would be nice. I own a Ventus C.

Anyone live in/near Grass Valley, CA? 1 hr from Truckee and Sacramento, 1.5 hrs from Williams, 2.5 hrs from Bay area.

Thanks for any suggestions

Matt

I recommend getting an RV and travel around to the various sites in the US. Set up your home base in some central location with low cost of living and taxes. Or pull the plug and go full time! You can always get a post office box somewhere to declare your residence.

Each area I visit has it's pluses and minuses - there will be no "perfect" location. Ely, NV, for example has world class soaring, but it lasts for only 6-8 weeks and it IS remote! So once it dies off go somewhere else.

I don't know anything about your personal situation, but there are some smaller diesel RVs that get excellent fuel mileage and are comfortable for 2 people.

Tom

On Sunday, February 15, 2015 at 2:41:00 PM UTC-7, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
Looking for new Ideas for places to retire. The usual considerations apply; cost of living, health care, weather, and available soaring. Doesn't have to be the US. near water would be nice. I own a Ventus C.

Anyone live in/near Grass Valley, CA? 1 hr from Truckee and Sacramento, 1.5 hrs from Williams, 2.5 hrs from Bay area.

Thanks for any suggestions

Matt

Going international multiplies the difficulty exponentially. Just getting your glider into country permanently will involve much difficulty and you could end up doubling its cost in duties. Health care will be a huge issue. You will also have to deal with the issues of permanent residency.

I sold my DG400 to a person in Brazil and was amazed at all of the bureaucratic hoops that had to be jumped thru. For example, the bill of sale had to be notarized (requiring me to create a form that the notary would sign), the notary had to be authenticated by the State, then the entire document had to be legalized by the Brazilian consulate. The whole document package was then sent air mail to Brazil. At any point, the documents could have been lost in the mail, necessitating starting all over again.

Oh, did I mention that ALL running gear, including tongue, jacks and running lights, had to be removed from the trailer and discarded (and replaced in Brazil)!

Tom

That was a good summary from Bert (no worries about blocking me with your Ventus, I managed!) about soaring in the French Alps.

Jonathan, there are 17 clubs in just the PACA region alone (southeastern most part of France), with most airports offering launches to those who make unintended visits. Here's a link to who's whe

http://ffvv.org/debutant-edito/annua...83_06_04_05_84

As Bert said, thermal season in the Alps runs from March to September, but today we had lift to 2500 meters and completed 250 km tasks. Not bad for February 18th. We also have a nice wave season from December through March. We have a wave window up to FL235 at Fayence. Last year I was still climbing at 14 knots passing FL230, and I had to open the spoilers and find the "down side" of the wave to get down.

March can be magical with both strong waves and strong thermals. We can have weak waves at any time though, even in July, and for those who know how to exploit them can increase their glide ratios to infinity.

What I love about the Alps, though, is the technique of flying along mountain faces all day long, nursing the anabatic lift, but not circling in it unless you need to clear a high pass. You can get some amazing glide ratios and cross-country speeds if you can resist the urge to stay high!

Another poster commented on the difficulty of moving internationally. Yes, by definition it is a bigger hassle than staying domestically. Is it impossible? No. Why did I do it? Because it was worth it! And I would do it all over again.

Chris

Thank you for sharing the French conditions. How long did it take you to learn French? Sounds absolutely wonderful. I spent a month in Paris during 2003 and fell in love with everything French!

Tom / 2G wrote:

"Going international multiplies the difficulty exponentially. Just getting your glider into country permanently will involve much difficulty and you could end up doubling its cost in duties. Health care will be a huge issue."

Hmmmm.....so you had a hard time in one single country so you're now writing off the rest of the world? The United Nations has 193 member states. Your experience WILL vary.

Let's take Australia for example. Despite the distance, shipping your glider there will cost $4.8-6k depending on chosen port and method (container vs RoRo). If you've owned it more than 6 months the tax is NIL. Duties NIL. In fact, tax on any aircraft with not more than one engine for a new immigrant or permanently returning resident is NIL so bring your SR22 too.

The big issue with healthcare is its free gosh darn it. Sorry about that. You don't have to auction your first born child to pay medical bills nor bleed out in the corner of the emergency room because you don't have insurance. In the interests of full disclosure, if you're working you'll pay a 2-3.5% healthcare levy on your taxable income and naturally, the waiting periods for govt provided care are longer than private. As this thread is about retirement, those charges are unlikely to apply.

Ok, that's Brazil and Australia sorted. Only 191 more countries to go....

Casey
B3

Matt, I have flown all the major soaring sites in the West for over 40 years and it is my considered opinion that you can't beat the Sierras in the summer, July being the best. Air Sailing Sports Regional Championships has been the most consistently GOOD flying I have seen, year after year with speeds in the 80's or higher and 3 hour average tasking. See you there and anyone else who would like to experience the Sierras at its best!
JJ

Le jeudi 19 février 2015 02:04:29 UTC+1, Jonathan St. Cloud a écrit*:
Thank you for sharing the French conditions. How long did it take you to learn French? Sounds absolutely wonderful. I spent a month in Paris during 2003 and fell in love with everything French!

A crash course for a month with 4h per day will make you see good progress. Local female implication would be a real boooster :-D

TW